Need Help - An issue with kotak cc and IRCTC

[Fini7777]

Hello all,

On 21st October 2024, I booked tickets through the IRCTC app using my Kotak Myntra Credit Card. Here’s what happened:

1. First Attempt:
   
   • chose Cred and selected Paytm UPI in other upi options.
   • Chose Kotak RuPay Credit Card.
   • Payment failed, and tickets were not booked.
   • 
2. Second Attempt:
   
   • Used PhonePe.
   • Chose Kotak RuPay Credit Card.
   • Payment was successful, but tickets were not booked. (I regularly use this option)
   • 

I waited for more than 14 days and then raised a chargeback with Kotak Bank, providing all relevant IRCTC and payment recps to their Level 1 support team.

After 45 days, I received the following response from Kotak Bank:

"The chargeback claim was rejected by the beneficiary bank as the transaction was marked as successful. IRCTC has not provided any supporting evidence or documents. We cannot assist further in this matter."

I then reached out to IRCTC and raised a complaint. Their reply was as follows:

"Dear Customer, TXN: -100005XXXXXXXX7 /1000053XXXXXXXX5 were settlement-failed transactions for which no amount was debited towards IRCTC. We didn't receive any payment authorization from your bankers to book the tickets. If there has been any deduction, please contact your card-issuing bank for a reversal of the same."

Following this, I escalated the issue with Kotak Bank's Grievance Redressal team. I received the following response:

"Greetings from Kotak Mahindra Bank Ltd!
This is with reference to your email dated 14th December 2024 regarding your banking relationship with us.
At the outset, please accept our sincere apologies for the inconvenience caused to you.
With reference to your email and as per the revert from our relevant department (Ref No: 194xxxx), the disputed transaction was authenticated using second-level authorization.
We understand your concern, but we cannot process your request for a chargeback as the transaction was done through a secure mode.
We request you to contact the merchant and cybercrime authorities for further resolution. Please note that the liability for payment lies with the cardholder.
Kindly make the payment of the complete outstanding amount to avoid any further charges on your card.
Your continued patience is solicited in this matter."

My Concerns:​

• The merchant (IRCTC) has claimed they never received payment or authorization for the booking.
• Kotak Bank has rejected the chargeback without providing any supporting documents from the merchant to substantiate their claim.
• This is a genuine issue, and I have provided all relevant records to prove my case.

Request for Suggestions:​

What steps should I take now? Both the bank and the merchant are shifting responsibility, and my genuine claim is being dismissed. Your valuable suggestions and views would be highly appreciated.

Thank you.
@TechnoFino @SSV @Vasuki @Abhishek012 @VISHESH_BANSAL @Wealth is my birth right! @telescope @Tejo @cardioguy @CosmicCat @Ram1 @CardsCrusader @RAMESH BABU N @HumorSimpson @helloworld @Anupama_Jha @Himanshuch @4uziaul @drsel @jack333 @D₹V @BVC @vaibhav111 @Shubham Yadav

 

[HumorSimpson]

@sjmajumder can you please help

 

[telescope]

Hello all,

On 21st October 2024, I booked tickets through the IRCTC app using my Kotak Myntra Credit Card. Here’s what happened:

1. First Attempt:
   • chose Cred and selected Paytm UPI in other upi options.
   • Chose Kotak RuPay Credit Card.
   • Payment failed, and tickets were not booked.
   • View attachment 77315View attachment 77317
2. Second Attempt:
   • Used PhonePe.
   • Chose Kotak RuPay Credit Card.
   • Payment was successful, but tickets were not booked. (I regularly use this option)
   • View attachment 77316View attachment 77317

I waited for more than 14 days and then raised a chargeback with Kotak Bank, providing all relevant IRCTC and payment recps to their Level 1 support team.

After 45 days, I received the following response from Kotak Bank:
View attachment 77314

I then reached out to IRCTC and raised a complaint. Their reply was as follows:


Following this, I escalated the issue with Kotak Bank's Grievance Redressal team. I received the following response:

My Concerns:​

• The merchant (IRCTC) has claimed they never received payment or authorization for the booking.
• Kotak Bank has rejected the chargeback without providing any supporting documents from the merchant to substantiate their claim.
• This is a genuine issue, and I have provided all relevant records to prove my case.

Request for Suggestions:​

What steps should I take now? Both the bank and the merchant are shifting responsibility, and my genuine claim is being dismissed. Your valuable suggestions and views would be highly appreciated.

Thank you.
@TechnoFino @SSV @Vasuki @Abhishek012 @VISHESH_BANSAL @Wealth is my birth right! @telescope @Tejo @cardioguy @CosmicCat @Ram1 @CardsCrusader @RAMESH BABU N @HumorSimpson @helloworld @Anupama_Jha @Himanshuch @4uziaul @drsel @jack333 @D₹V @BVC @vaibhav111 @Shubham Yadav

I would suggest you to contact phonepe as they are the payment gateway. They might help you.

 

[Fini7777]

I would suggest you to contact phonepe as they are the payment gateway. They might help you.

Yes I did,
Here's the reply from phonepe

 

[helloworld]

Hello all,

On 21st October 2024, I booked tickets through the IRCTC app using my Kotak Myntra Credit Card. Here’s what happened:

1. First Attempt:
   • chose Cred and selected Paytm UPI in other upi options.
   • Chose Kotak RuPay Credit Card.
   • Payment failed, and tickets were not booked.
   • View attachment 77315View attachment 77317
2. Second Attempt:
   • Used PhonePe.
   • Chose Kotak RuPay Credit Card.
   • Payment was successful, but tickets were not booked. (I regularly use this option)
   • View attachment 77316View attachment 77317

I waited for more than 14 days and then raised a chargeback with Kotak Bank, providing all relevant IRCTC and payment recps to their Level 1 support team.

After 45 days, I received the following response from Kotak Bank:
View attachment 77314

I then reached out to IRCTC and raised a complaint. Their reply was as follows:


Following this, I escalated the issue with Kotak Bank's Grievance Redressal team. I received the following response:

My Concerns:​

• The merchant (IRCTC) has claimed they never received payment or authorization for the booking.
• Kotak Bank has rejected the chargeback without providing any supporting documents from the merchant to substantiate their claim.
• This is a genuine issue, and I have provided all relevant records to prove my case.

Request for Suggestions:​

What steps should I take now? Both the bank and the merchant are shifting responsibility, and my genuine claim is being dismissed. Your valuable suggestions and views would be highly appreciated.

Thank you.
@TechnoFino @SSV @Vasuki @Abhishek012 @VISHESH_BANSAL @Wealth is my birth right! @telescope @Tejo @cardioguy @CosmicCat @Ram1 @CardsCrusader @RAMESH BABU N @HumorSimpson @helloworld @Anupama_Jha @Himanshuch @4uziaul @drsel @jack333 @D₹V @BVC @vaibhav111 @Shubham Yadav

Paytm and Phonepe = Request them that any refund recived by IRCTC on following days or any refund they processed.

Use IRCTC booking history which contains reference number if refund initiated. It will be available within 3 days of any failed or cancelled transaction.

Then check those apps with this and ask for RRN (refund reference number), this they can only provide if only they did reversed your payment to bank.

If they didn't provide this number then fault with these apps.

If RRN available then check same with bank about status of that reference.

Here you know that now issue with bank.

-----

My experience:

when I escalate my bank they asked RRN number which paytm provided, so upon multiple escalations bank failed to credit amount to my bank due to technical issues.

//all happended when escalated through RBIO.

....

Above case bank different but had an experience with Kotak. I suggest you to take full screenshots of whole conversation because Kotak is shady.

Did reward redemption by paying extra which got failed, rewards credited back but amount not refunded. Escalated through multiple levels and all of them miraculously explained about rewards but not for the amount failed through credit card.

Did chargeback which got rejected, meanwhile 30 days passed escalated to RBIO. They did credited the failed amount but updated the credit date as 3 days after failed transaction date.

Again, complained to RBIO with all screenshots and monthly statements received through bank where none of them showing that credit transaction except current month where they edit and falsily showed as credit.

Well, I got the credit after complain to RBIO but after even agreeing their mistake, just to keep their ledgers clean they showed credit date wrong.

Even RBIO closed complaint that "bank did reversed the payment, and complaint closed", no compensation or explanation about this.

So, careful.

 

[Fini7777]

Paytm and Phonepe = Request them that any refund recived by IRCTC on following days or any refund they processed.

Use IRCTC booking history which contains reference number if refund initiated. It will be available within 3 days of any failed or cancelled transaction.

Then check those apps with this and ask for RRN (refund reference number), this they can only provide if only they did reversed your payment to bank.

If they didn't provide this number then fault with these apps.

If RRN available then check same with bank about status of that reference.

Here you know that now issue with bank.

-----

My experience:

when I escalate my bank they asked RRN number which paytm provided, so upon multiple escalations bank failed to credit amount to my bank due to technical issues.

//all happended when escalated through RBIO.

....

Above case bank different but had an experience with Kotak. I suggest you to take full screenshots of whole conversation because Kotak is shady.

Did reward redemption by paying extra which got failed, rewards credited back but amount not refunded. Escalated through multiple levels and all of them miraculously explained about rewards but not for the amount failed through credit card.

Did chargeback which got rejected, meanwhile 30 days passed escalated to RBIO. They did credited the failed amount but updated the credit date as 3 days after failed transaction date.

Again, complained to RBIO with all screenshots and monthly statements received through bank where none of them showing that credit transaction except current month where they edit and falsily showed as credit.

Well, I got the credit after complain to RBIO but after even agreeing their mistake, just to keep their ledgers clean they showed credit date wrong.

Even RBIO closed complaint that "bank did reversed the payment, and complaint closed", no compensation or explanation about this.

So, careful.

Thank you, I'll ask for RRN from both apps

 

[VISHESH_BANSAL]

Yes I did,
Here's the reply from phonepe

Merchant Order ID shared by Phonepe is not Matching with IRCTC TXN IDs.

Ask IRCTC to check with their Payment Gateway Partner i.e, Phonepe, the Status of Txn under Merchant Order ID-_____.
Attach the Screenshot of PhonePe Confirmation too.

Ask IRCTC to share Written Confirmation that IRCTC did not Received any Payment under Merchant Order ID-____ from PhonePe.

Then PhonePe will definetly esclate it with IRCTC

 

[Fini7777]

Paytm and Phonepe = Request them that any refund recived by IRCTC on following days or any refund they processed.

Use IRCTC booking history which contains reference number if refund initiated. It will be available within 3 days of any failed or cancelled transaction.

Then check those apps with this and ask for RRN (refund reference number), this they can only provide if only they did reversed your payment to bank.

If they didn't provide this number then fault with these apps.

If RRN available then check same with bank about status of that reference.

Here you know that now issue with bank.

-----

My experience:

when I escalate my bank they asked RRN number which paytm provided, so upon multiple escalations bank failed to credit amount to my bank due to technical issues.

//all happended when escalated through RBIO.

....

Above case bank different but had an experience with Kotak. I suggest you to take full screenshots of whole conversation because Kotak is shady.

Did reward redemption by paying extra which got failed, rewards credited back but amount not refunded. Escalated through multiple levels and all of them miraculously explained about rewards but not for the amount failed through credit card.

Did chargeback which got rejected, meanwhile 30 days passed escalated to RBIO. They did credited the failed amount but updated the credit date as 3 days after failed transaction date.

Again, complained to RBIO with all screenshots and monthly statements received through bank where none of them showing that credit transaction except current month where they edit and falsily showed as credit.

Well, I got the credit after complain to RBIO but after even agreeing their mistake, just to keep their ledgers clean they showed credit date wrong.

Even RBIO closed complaint that "bank did reversed the payment, and complaint closed", no compensation or explanation about this.

So, careful.

Paytm did not provide the RRN and here's the reply from paytm

 

[Fini7777]

Merchant Order ID shared by Phonepe is not Matching with IRCTC TXN IDs.

yes, u r right IRCTC has provided the wrong merchant ID to phonepe

Ask IRCTC to check with their Payment Gateway Partner i.e, Phonepe, the Status of Txn under Merchant Order ID-_____.
Attach the Screenshot of PhonePe Confirmation too.

Ask IRCTC to share Written Confirmation that IRCTC did not Received any Payment under Merchant Order ID-____ from PhonePe.

Then PhonePe will definetly esclate it with IRCTC

I'll do it and update here

 

[anonymuos]

Ohh that's terrible. Kotak did this with my EazyDiner case. Transaction failed at restaurant but they claimed it was successful and denied the refund/chargeback filing refused. Eventually I found that restaurant had received the money without any credit SMS. Settled it with the restaurant.

Try reaching out to @railmadad Twitter account. They may be able to help you

Also avoid RuPay CC on UPI for railway ticket booking via IRCTC website or app

 

[Fini7777]

@helloworld @VISHESH_BANSAL I don't think Paytm could help me in this case, they straightway mentioned that the amount was not deducted from Card
and coming to Phonepe It appears that the Merchant IRCTC might have provided incorrect confirmation details to Phonepe bcoz the order IDs do not match. I'm trying to connect with phonepe support

but what about paytm? How can I get that refund?

 

[helloworld]

@helloworld @VISHESH_BANSAL I don't think Paytm could help me in this case, they straightway mentioned that the amount was not deducted from Card
and coming to Phonepe It appears that the Merchant IRCTC might have provided incorrect confirmation details to Phonepe bcoz the order IDs do not match. I'm trying to connect with phonepe support

but what about paytm? How can I get that refund?

share the paytm screenshot to kotak and ask for refund.

since its more than 30 days open rbio complaint. bank will deal for you, otherwise each of then blaming.

 

[Fini7777]

share the paytm screenshot to kotak and ask for refund.

since its more than 30 days open rbio complaint. bank will deal for you, otherwise each of then blaming.

Yeah, just now sent an email to kotak and attacked irctc's and paytm's response
Also sent a msg to phonepe grievance, indicated the discrepancy in IRCTC's confirmation

 

[helloworld]

Yeah, just now sent an email to kotak and attacked irctc's and paytm's response
Also sent a msg to phonepe grievance, indicated the discrepancy in IRCTC's confirmation

Ok, meanwhile open rbio complaint, dont wait.

 

[Fini7777]

Ohh that's terrible. Kotak did this with my EazyDiner case. Transaction failed at restaurant but they claimed it was successful and denied the refund/chargeback filing refused. Eventually I found that restaurant had received the money without any credit SMS. Settled it with the restaurant.

Yeah, I suspect it's a mistake by kotak not by IRCTC anyways I'll wait for their reply and if they still settle the txn in merchant favor I'll escalate it to RBI

Try reaching out to @railmadad Twitter account. They may be able to help you

Yes, I received reply from them yesterday

Also avoid RuPay CC on UPI for railway ticket booking via IRCTC website or app

I use my hdfc TNI regularly via phonepe to book tkts in IRCTC app but unfortunately I used kotak cc that time

 

[Fini7777]

Ok, meanwhile open rbio complaint, dont wait.

I forgot to mention here
In a telephonic conversation with kotak team they said that they closed this case in merchant favor and they did not produce any supporting docs to claim the txn success though they settled the case in merchant favor

It's totally a violation of RBI guidelines on chargeback and disputed transactions.

 

[Abhishek012]

Hello all,

On 21st October 2024, I booked tickets through the IRCTC app using my Kotak Myntra Credit Card. Here’s what happened:

1. First Attempt:
   • chose Cred and selected Paytm UPI in other upi options.
   • Chose Kotak RuPay Credit Card.
   • Payment failed, and tickets were not booked.
   • View attachment 77315View attachment 77317
2. Second Attempt:
   • Used PhonePe.
   • Chose Kotak RuPay Credit Card.
   • Payment was successful, but tickets were not booked. (I regularly use this option)
   • View attachment 77316View attachment 77317

I waited for more than 14 days and then raised a chargeback with Kotak Bank, providing all relevant IRCTC and payment recps to their Level 1 support team.

After 45 days, I received the following response from Kotak Bank:
View attachment 77314

I then reached out to IRCTC and raised a complaint. Their reply was as follows:


Following this, I escalated the issue with Kotak Bank's Grievance Redressal team. I received the following response:

My Concerns:​

• The merchant (IRCTC) has claimed they never received payment or authorization for the booking.
• Kotak Bank has rejected the chargeback without providing any supporting documents from the merchant to substantiate their claim.
• This is a genuine issue, and I have provided all relevant records to prove my case.

Request for Suggestions:​

What steps should I take now? Both the bank and the merchant are shifting responsibility, and my genuine claim is being dismissed. Your valuable suggestions and views would be highly appreciated.

Thank you.
@TechnoFino @SSV @Vasuki @Abhishek012 @VISHESH_BANSAL @Wealth is my birth right! @telescope @Tejo @cardioguy @CosmicCat @Ram1 @CardsCrusader @RAMESH BABU N @HumorSimpson @helloworld @Anupama_Jha @Himanshuch @4uziaul @drsel @jack333 @D₹V @BVC @vaibhav111 @Shubham Yadav

First check your refund credit to your bank account or not because Kotak RuPay CC UPI refund many times credited to our 3rd party UPI app bank account link UPI.

Now if refund is not receive then apply 2nd chargeback with all proof.

Tell them to file a charge on pre-arbitration and arbitration. Also share them your IRCTC transaction history, all proof like transaction failed on IRCTC and IRCTC email reply etc.

Chargeback pre-arbitration and arbitration are steps in the process of resolving a customer dispute over a transaction

• Pre-arbitration: A chance for the merchant and customer to present evidence and resolve the dispute. This is also known as a "second chargeback".
• Arbitration: A final step where the Card/UPI network makes a decision on the dispute. This is the final event in the dispute resolution cycle. This is also known as a "third and final chargeback".

In representment, the merchant gathers evidence that demonstrates that whatever reason the card/UPI holder gave for the chargeback is untrue.

For example, a merchant would respond to a chargeback with a "transaction not authorized" reason code with proof that the card/UPI holder authorized the transaction.

The merchant submits this evidence to the issuing bank, which makes a decision to either uphold or reverse the chargeback.

However, if the card/UPI holder disputes the transaction a second time based on new evidence, the issuing bank can pursue that as a second chargeback. At this point, the process enters pre-arbitration, or pre-arb, as a second round of disputes.

What Is Chargeback Pre-arbitration?

Pre-arbitration is the last chance for the merchant and the issuing bank to settle a chargeback before arbitration begins, at which point the card/UPI network steps in to make a final decision.

Pre-arbitration is usually requested by the customer’s issuing bank, though the acquiring bank can also request it should the merchant be unhappy with the results of the initial dispute.

When pre-arbitration is initiated, merchants have two options. First, they can accept liability for the chargeback, and the customer gets refunded their money in full. If they're not willing to accept liability, they can request arbitration. This means that the card/UPI network will step in to make a final decision on the dispute.

What Is Chargeback Arbitration?

If the merchant doesn’t accept liability during pre-arbitration, the chargeback moves into arbitration. The purpose of arbitration is to place the dispute decision in the hands of an impartial third party: the card/UPI network.

Since the issuing and acquiring banks have been unable to settle on an outcome on their own, arbitration gives the card/UPI network the power to weigh in and have the final say.

 

[sjmajumder]

@sjmajumder can you please help

I have no experience with IRCTC but here's what I understand about the issue:
Both Payment Gateway (PhonePe) and bank (Kotak) has confirmed that payment is successful but IRCTC denies any payment receipt. So, it seems issue is at IRCTC end and OP needs to chase IRCTC. If IRCTC is not supporting then next step may be complaining to PMO through CPGRAMS https://pmopg.gov.in/citizenreforms?language=en

 

[anonymuos]

First check your refund credit to your bank account or not because Kotak RuPay CC UPI refund many times credited to our 3rd party UPI app bank account link UPI.

Now if refund is not receive then apply 2nd chargeback with all proof.

Tell them to file a charge on pre-arbitration and arbitration. Also share them your IRCTC transaction history, all proof like transaction failed on IRCTC and IRCTC email reply etc.

Chargeback pre-arbitration and arbitration are steps in the process of resolving a customer dispute over a transaction

• Pre-arbitration: A chance for the merchant and customer to present evidence and resolve the dispute. This is also known as a "second chargeback".
• Arbitration: A final step where the Card/UPI network makes a decision on the dispute. This is the final event in the dispute resolution cycle. This is also known as a "third and final chargeback".

View attachment 77331

In representment, the merchant gathers evidence that demonstrates that whatever reason the card/UPI holder gave for the chargeback is untrue.

For example, a merchant would respond to a chargeback with a "transaction not authorized" reason code with proof that the card/UPI holder authorized the transaction.

The merchant submits this evidence to the issuing bank, which makes a decision to either uphold or reverse the chargeback.

However, if the card/UPI holder disputes the transaction a second time based on new evidence, the issuing bank can pursue that as a second chargeback. At this point, the process enters pre-arbitration, or pre-arb, as a second round of disputes.

What Is Chargeback Pre-arbitration?

Pre-arbitration is the last chance for the merchant and the issuing bank to settle a chargeback before arbitration begins, at which point the card/UPI network steps in to make a final decision.

Pre-arbitration is usually requested by the customer’s issuing bank, though the acquiring bank can also request it should the merchant be unhappy with the results of the initial dispute.

When pre-arbitration is initiated, merchants have two options. First, they can accept liability for the chargeback, and the customer gets refunded their money in full. If they're not willing to accept liability, they can request arbitration. This means that the card/UPI network will step in to make a final decision on the dispute.

What Is Chargeback Arbitration?

If the merchant doesn’t accept liability during pre-arbitration, the chargeback moves into arbitration. The purpose of arbitration is to place the dispute decision in the hands of an impartial third party: the card/UPI network.

Since the issuing and acquiring banks have been unable to settle on an outcome on their own, arbitration gives the card/UPI network the power to weigh in and have the final say.

I hope Kotak buffoons know what arbitration is. Given the way they handled my EazyDiner case, they were completely unaware even at Nodal officer level that chargeback can also be filed for service not given. Arbitration is the next stage but they were denying everything only on the basis of transaction success or failure.

 

[Fini7777]

I hope Kotak buffoons know what arbitration is. Given the way they handled my EazyDiner case, they were completely unaware even at Nodal officer level that chargeback can also be filed for service not given. Arbitration is the next stage but they were denying everything only on the basis of transaction success or failure.

yes, They are not questioning whether the payment reached the merchant or if the service (ticket booking) was fulfilled. Instead, they are focusing solely on the technical approval of the transaction from their system.
Kotak has not provided any proof that the transaction was successfully settled with the merchant (IRCTC)

Kotak cannot close the dispute without verifying the settlement with IRCTC.