Infinia vs Magnus vs Atlas

[raviemailid]

BACKGROUND STORY:

I had no credit card till June 2021 because of bad credit. I had defaulted on a couple of credit cards about a decade ago and had decided to stick to debit cards and real money for my needs. All of this was going good - I was paying full money for amazon, Flipkart shopping, full money for Zomato, Swiggy, Uber and for anything that you can think of. Life was simple.

But I always wished if I had a credit card - especially the Amazon ICICI credit card - I was a moderate user of Amazon and having the luxury of 5% cash back on everything was nothing short of a dream for me. This thought pushed me to apply for it and it got rejected, obviously. I approached the bank - visited the branch nearby, something that I hadn't done for 5 years. ICICI bank was good and friendly - helped me close my old credit card and issued me a credit card against an FD. Well, they also took 2L cheque for opening some premium account. I didn't need all that but the excitement of getting a CC was worth that stupid 2L FD (that FD is still running with them) and I was issued a Coral credit card. I was happy. 6 months later, after many applications and requests, I was issued an Amazon ICICI Pay credit card and then, after some time, I got Flipkart Axis.

I was on cloud 9 - all my credit card dreams were fulfilled, I was saving 5% flat from FK and Amazon plus some sundry 4% cashback from other apps and a flat 1.5% cashback on all the spends for FK Axis. I moved all my expenses to CC and migrated to cred for bill payments. I also got my hands on Zomato RBL card (which became shoprite card), IndusInd Legend and SBI BPCL card. All of this was good for some 10 months. Then in one of my persuasive conversations with my HDFC RM, the bank I have the longest and heaviest relationship with, but also the one refusing to issue me a credit card, sprang a surprise. Guess I had bothered her to death saying how can you not give me a credit card when I am your classic customer and ICICI and Axis can. RM, utterly fed-up with me, apologized again and threw a last straw towards me - "sir, are you from IIT/IIM or any premier institute?" I was like, "What do you mean, I am from IIM."

I was issued Diners Club Black - which introduced me to 3.3% cashback and the luxuries of credit cards. I was elated and boasted about it to my wife. Hell, I got her an add-on card for lounge visits. Life was all good for another 10 months.

Then in June - I was introduced to GYFTR - those reward multipliers of 2x, and 3x were insane. I was like - why on earth I am not using these? Then in GYFTR, I saw Infinia listed with better reward points. I went to the HDFC portal and saw that I couldn't apply for it - it was an invitation only. This led me to do more research then I came across sites like TechnoFino, Cardinsider etc and I was totally blown away. I felt how novice of me to be happy with DCB when Magnus was killing it. I tried for Magnus in July and I was issued one. But then, I got the update of devaluation and in a panic state, I cancelled the card when it was issued. The card was still delivered to me though but it is cancelled now.

Now - I was greedy, I wanted Infinia! Spoke to RM, and being the amazing lady she is, she said I can get the paid one - and I have the paid one with me now, using it for the last 1 week. But I have understood that 3.3% is all I have except SmartBuy and GYFTR. So I have been looking for ways to find the ideal card combination for me. Hence the research.

WHY COMPARING THESE?

I have 4 main categories of expenses. The expenses that can be covered with GYFTR, second the direct hotel and flights, 3rd normal hotel and flights and 4 other expenses like insurance, fees (can't use Apay) etc. I feel stupid to have cancelled the Magnus, but I guess that may have been a blessing in disguise. Had it stayed with me, I would have tried for Burgundy status and that is not something I'd like to do with Axis bank.

Below table runs a sample point calculation for my annualized expenses. The three cards in question (Infinia, Magnus and Atlas) has a very acceptable annual charge, so I am ignoring that totally.



Magnus is considered with Burgundy benefits. For Smartbuy considering it is 5x and 10x, I have taken 7x and Traveledge is 5x. It is clear that Atlas is a very strong card but then, I thought, what if I have Atlas+Infinia combination?

So if I use Infinia for GYFTR and SmartBuy I get 33333+46667 = 80000 and Atlas for direct and general, it is 80000+24000=104000, total 184000. Add 15K milestone of Atlas and 20K joining miles from Infinia and Atlas, I have a total of 2,19,000 miles. 12% return against total expense.

Atlas expense can only be used for flight and hotel, whereas Infinia can be routed to Apple and Tanishq and trains as well. This does look like a good main 2 driver cards to use. What do you all think?

I was slightly tempted by Magnus+Burgundy, but I don't want to shift to premium banking of Axis - and as you see from the table, I am not loosing much. What other cards would you recommend?

P.S - I have applied for Atlas, the card is coming in a week!

Thank you for reading.

 

[drsel]

The vouchers given by Amex for 5* hotels should be valued at 50%.
No way any Amex card can come even close to Atlas or Magnus burgundy

I also had Amex MRCC which was giving about 5.5% return after reducing the annual fees of 875 (discounted 50% by customer care), etc but the cards I have now are giving me much more.
So I closed MRCC

 

[raviemailid]

Yeah, whatever I have studied of Amex cards, they didn't seem as useful and effective as the ones we are talking about so far in this thread. I'll be happy to be proven wrong and find a better card though.

 

[ccfan]

The vouchers given by Amex for 5* hotels should be valued at 50%.
No way any Amex card can come even close to Atlas or Magnus burgundy

50% value on amex 5* hotel vouchers might be a bit harsh since at some point with international travel or not, I'll end up splurging on a day or two of taj/marriot and be able to use the vouchers as is. 48K points on 4L spends means 34K taj vouchers which is 7% if no waiver on fees (5k+GST).

Definitely less value if one doesn't want to go to taj, for sure, but in my case atleast I consider it a doable option. Whether axis edge points being transferred to taj/ITC would have been a better benefit, unclear to me as that goes into opportunity costs analysis.

I agree with both of you that this and other Amex cards won't match atlas or magnus burgundy, it's just a way to enter the travel game without being sure upfront on whether my non-infinia spends will be on 4L+ direct airline/hotels (atlas) or 4L+ of flexible general spend ).

 

[raviemailid]

48K points on 4L spends means 34K taj

This is a very unique situation for you. If you do feel like spending a day or two in a Taj property once a year, Amex vouchers will be of good value. I feel any card that provides you a usable return of 7% is a good card.

I think one challenge of these vouchers is the obligation of use with specific services and time factors. Let's say I get the vouchers which need to be used within 12 months/6 months and it is almost the time but I don't feel like going. I'll be forced to go to a Taj property just to use it up. This lack of flexibility might be a limiting factor.

My definition of time off is typically to spend a couple of nights on hills and there are no Taj properties there. Even for the luxuries of it, I haven't ever felt the urge to spend a night in a Taj. Maybe I'll like it - but would I spend 15K for it, not sure.

Infinia gives you 1 night free on some of the ITC properties on 2 nights - not sure if I'll ever use it. There is also a 1+1 buffet on ITC - that I am most likely to use.

 

[ccfan]

This is a very unique situation for you. If you do feel like spending a day or two in a Taj property once a year, Amex vouchers will be of good value. I feel any card that provides you a usable return of 7% is a good card.

I think one challenge of these vouchers is the obligation of use with specific services and time factors. Let's say I get the vouchers which need to be used within 12 months/6 months and it is almost the time but I don't feel like going. I'll be forced to go to a Taj property just to use it up. This lack of flexibility might be a limiting factor.

My definition of time off is typically to spend a couple of nights on hills and there are no Taj properties there. Even for the luxuries of it, I haven't ever felt the urge to spend a night in a Taj. Maybe I'll like it - but would I spend 15K for it, not sure.

Infinia gives you 1 night free on some of the ITC properties on 2 nights - not sure if I'll ever use it. There is also a 1+1 buffet on ITC - that I am most likely to use.

Agreed on all these. The ITC 1+1 buffet, definitely. But would I spend 40k of raw money for two ITC nights to get a 3rd free? - highly unlikely. Same for Taj revenue bookings. Noting all the flexibility loss, I'm up for forgoing 12-16k (3-4% infinia/atlas general spends) points on 4L to get 30-34k Taj value, but I wouldn't go otherwise. Soft-luxury hunting rather than true luxury spending XD.

 

[drsel]

Agreed on all these. The ITC 1+1 buffet, definitely. But would I spend 40k of raw money for two ITC nights to get a 3rd free? - highly unlikely. Same for Taj revenue bookings. Noting all the flexibility loss, I'm up for forgoing 12-16k (3-4% infinia/atlas general spends) points on 4L to get 30-34k Taj value, but I wouldn't go otherwise. Soft-luxury hunting rather than true luxury spending XD.

Remember that huge banks buy these 5* room nights in bulk at approx 50% discount

 

[drsel]

It does not make sense to even have Infinia, because the daily limit for buying air tickets at 14.5% discount is only 90,000 per day and 90,000 for the whole month !
How many air tickets for long distance can you buy?

Also the discount using Infinia to buy air tickets on Smartbuy works out to only 14.5%, far less than Magnus Burgundys 24% on Traveledge

 

[drsel]

 

[raviemailid]

How many air tickets for long distance can you buy?

I don't have a requirement to buy bigger tickets every month. In fact, I haven't bought one this year so far. Like I said sir, I have more usage of SmartBuy and vouchers than international flights.

If you have frequent international flight bookings - then go ahead sir, Maguns probably is right card for you, but NOT for me.

I mentioned the challenges about Magnus 3 posts above - with those challenges in place, I am not sure I am joining the Magnus bandwagon. I can pay the fees but I can't keep 10L idle in their savings account.

 

[raviemailid]

The whole Atlas MCC situation is concerning. I swiped 84K with Golconda Resort, ideally, it should have been categorised as a hotel, but it wasn't and was taken as a restaurant general spend.

This bifurcation of a restaurant or hotel is not going to work for me. I have another Banquet hall booking next month with Hyatt and I am concerned that it might go as a restaurant as well. With this information in light - the Atlas card is becoming much less interesting and valuable to me. I think I might just go Burgundy + Magnus way.

At the end of it - Atlas does seem like a concerning card. Even then 4% return is still one of the best in the market.

I'll wait for Burgundy + Magnus fiasco to subside and then take a call on moving from Atlas to Magnus.

 

[ccfan]

The whole Atlas MCC situation is concerning. I swiped 84K with Golconda Resort, ideally, it should have been categorised as a hotel, but it wasn't and was taken as a restaurant general spend.

This bifurcation of a restaurant or hotel is not going to work for me. I have another Banquet hall booking next month with Hyatt and I am concerned that it might go as a restaurant as well. With this information in light - the Atlas card is becoming much less interesting and valuable to me. I think I might just go Burgundy + Magnus way.

At the end of it - Atlas does seem like a concerning card. Even then 4% return is still one of the best in the market.

I'll wait for Burgundy + Magnus fiasco to subside and then take a call on moving from Atlas to Magnus.

Let us know if you are able to negotiate any easier upgrades to burgundy than having to keep 10L in savings. I don't want to make Axis my primary stash location but if I can get burgundy basis income docs or a lower savings balance that doesn't auto-downgrade, I can consider that. My company doesn't let me change my salary account so can't use that to get status.

 

[drsel]

Burgundy criteria are clearly laid down.
you can't get it with a lower than 10 lakh AQB balance in saving account or 30 lac FD, etc

 

[raviemailid]

My company doesn't let me change my salary account so can't use that to get status.

Luckily, my company does and that's the route I'll be taking. No way I am keeping 10L cash. They all care about salary credit, I'll let it credit and spend a couple of days in Axis and then move to my primary account.

All this will take some time, because Axis will need salary to be credited at least two month to credibly take it as a salary account.

If I want to hurry up, I can move 10L for a month in Axis and then let it be a Burgundy on a basis of salary (not sure if they'll let me change it)

 

[ccfan]

The whole Atlas MCC situation is concerning. I swiped 84K with Golconda Resort, ideally, it should have been categorised as a hotel, but it wasn't and was taken as a restaurant general spend.

Is there a way to check beforehand for a merchant, what the MCC code may be? For example I want to book a Europe flight on lufthansa.com which shows me an INR price. Based on various MCC code lists online, LUFTHANSA is MCC 3008 which Axis says counts for accelerated rewards. But if for some reason the payment gateway which making the payment doesn't tag it correctly, is it possible to get the right mile rewards by showing proof to Axis customer care? Vistara and Indigo are not part of any MCC lists so ideally they would be 4511 - AIRLINES, AIR CARRIERS (NOT LISTED BELOW), but who can say whether PayU or Razorpay or whatever gateway their official site uses will pass that correctly? INR vs foreign currency option (for lufthansa, for example) is another matter too.

 

[drsel]

Is there a way to check beforehand for a merchant, what the MCC code may be? For example I want to book a Europe flight on lufthansa.com which shows me an INR price. Based on various MCC code lists online, LUFTHANSA is MCC 3008 which Axis says counts for accelerated rewards. But if for some reason the payment gateway which making the payment doesn't tag it correctly, is it possible to get the right mile rewards by showing proof to Axis customer care? Vistara and Indigo are not part of any MCC lists so ideally they would be 4511 - AIRLINES, AIR CARRIERS (NOT LISTED BELOW), but who can say whether PayU or Razorpay or whatever gateway their official site uses will pass that correctly? INR vs foreign currency option (for lufthansa, for example) is another matter too.

There is only one way.
you have to disable all domestic and international transactions on your card and then pay.

the payment will obviously fail
Then you have to phone customer care and ask them what is the MCC for that failed transaction and if it is in airline category then you can use your Atlas card.
Please like, if you appreciate my advice

 

[ccfan]

There is only one way.
you have to disable all domestic and international transactions on your card and then pay.

the payment will obviously fail
Then you have to phone customer care and ask them what is the MCC for that failed transaction and if it is in airline category then you can use your Atlas card.
Please like, if you appreciate my advice

Honestly that's a great idea XD. Just have to avoid this in cases where a failed payment would impact prices if I retried (one time use promo codes, high demand bookings etc). Have you done this previously/occasionally or just a theoretical idea?

 

[drsel]

You have to do this in Google incognito or Mozilla Firefox safe mode so that there are no cookies Stored on your laptop
and delete all your temp files and cache before you start the booking procedure.

Otherwise there is a possibility that the fare will get bumped up, but only on your laptop.

 

[itsds]

Great and interesting CC journey for sure. Infinity + ATLAS is a great combination. CCs are not all size fit. Combination varies for every individual according to the needs. I use Amex MRCC + ATLAS for Gift Voucher & Airmiles both🤩

How can you use ATlas for gift voucher ? from where will you buy ?

 

[Akash777]

How can you use ATlas for gift voucher ? from where will you buy ?

I use Amex MRCC to receive Gift Voucher with points redemption & Axis ATLAS to receive Airmiles.

 

[drsel]

Your idea is right but calculation is little wrong as it can go on in loops 😅
I have the following theory... correct me if I am wrong:
Basically Suppose I earn X% of RPs and the place where I redeem provides me Y% RPs, and now while redeeming the points earned where I get Y% points back, I am not getting the Y% on those points redeemed. I will only get Y% RPs for the amount paid.
So correct mathematical formula for this is (Reward Rate - (Redemption Rate percentage of Reward Rate)) ie. = X - (Y% of X)
For flights both X and Y is same ie. 16.67%
So for Flights 5x = 16.67( 1 - 16.67% ) = 13.89%
General spends 1X = 3.33( 1 - 16.67% ) = 2.77%
Instant Vouchers 3x = 10( 1 - 16.67% ) = 8.33%
For Hotels 10x = 33.33( 1 - 16.67% ) = 27.7%

I don't understand the context in which you said this line but this thing can be figured out.

Brilliant math calculations!
But did you factor in that only 70% reward points can be used for the second transaction utilising the reward points, while 30% has be paid with the Infinia card?

Please calculate the same discount for Magnus for burgundy card with 24% return on Traveledge on flights and hotels