Banks and their RM'S , Are you only for selling crap ULIPS ,Guaranteed plans

[kjs]

Being salaried person never used banking services agressively as a Business Person would do. But since last 2 years have been using , enquiring banking services , accounts for various reasons like Personal Loans ,Home Loans , Credit Cards , lockers etc as part of actual needs but have noticed one common things especially amongst private banks , they tend to sell you some or the other crap policies or ask you to do some or other Fds. Some times they would even keep ur actual query/problem aside and start being a sales man/ women.

I know they have orders from seniors who have targets from their seniors and so on...

Faced / Facing these issues with

HDFC bank - Now recently RM has started pitching me to start MF sip , already told her doing sip since my bachpan. Today visited branch for PPF query, they were prompt and solved query then the executive there was like mast plan batata hu apko guaranteed wala PPF se jyada intrest wala hai aur usse better. The other lady started entering my details in system and explained me then shes like u want to take it. I was like 15L investment plan u want me to decide in less than 15mins for ur X % commission seriously got fed up and then shes like will call you on Tuesday. A few such instances from HDFC before also but always stayed away at the end only took what i needed.

ICICI - Any time i just check offer in iMobile next day get minimum 5 calls , have added my no in their dnd list. Thank god i dont have any RM assigned

Axis - Baap of Sales bank, Bank employee ,RMs bus lelo sab policy lelo.RMs are pathetic,Bank employee force to open FD always. Just once in 1 branch i have seen employee who genuinely solved my issue aftr i visited 3 times for the same he was the only one who did not pitch me anything. But closed account as RM was a sales man.

Kotak : Opened 811 ,aftr 1 month got 15 20 calls for 2 3 days related to CC , Escalated on twitter finally some relief. Free mein CC kyu nahi chaiye. I told free mein mall mein ac ka hava khane milta hai toh waha chale jao,call disconnected.

I have noticed one thing that if you start buying thru them ur complex issues will get sorted out else chakkar kat teh raho same branch k ya toh dusri branch jao.

This issue is not there wil PSU banks in my exp(Used BOI, currently using UNION & BOB)might be in some cases but very much less than Private Banks. Have decided going forward not to open account with any Private Banks infact will close a couple from above based on behaviour

Now slowly PSU are improving their service and app experience is also getting better with top 3- 4 PSU's atleast and branch reach is also more. Also their main intention is to provide services to every type of Indian Citizen and not just to sell policies and they are doing decently well. Exceptions are always there. And overall service rates are competitive. Its just they are over crowded at times.

I think 1-2 Decent Pvt bank account is enough to hold for services but these days even Pvt banks have started asking to visit branches for silly things.

Ppl can share their experience. Some thing different to discuss about

 

[Walter White]

I have done it. the thugs at axis found a way to circumvent that.

they call you saying that it is a 'service' call to ask whether you have any problems in account or feedback to give.

once you say everything is fine, they start pitching products.

disguising marketing calls as service calls.

Lol. My RM at trying to sell me some crap investment product. I told him I will buy if he will send me an Excel with the assumptions, reason behind taking the assumption and calculations and come up with an estimate number and proper explanations. He hates me now.

 

[ltf4ever]

Lol. My RM at trying to sell me some crap investment product. I told him I will buy if he will send me an Excel with the assumptions, reason behind taking the assumption and calculations and come up with an estimate number and proper explanations. He hates me now.

I told my RM that the product being pitched is crap. RM told me, sir please do it I have to complete my targets. no bakwaas, sidhi baat.

 

[kjs]

I don't think that there is any such rule. But it would be very convenient to have an SB account along with it. Maintaining the PPF account would then be effortless through netbanking (that is, if you do it at SBI. I'm talking from personal experience).

Yes. Currently ppf is in hdfc i will move it to SBI when i open a new account with them

 

[Tirajat]

I just straight up asked them to calculate the interest which was around 8% it was fun to look at her face

On a different note, I’m curious to know why 8% isn’t attractive (seemed you were suggesting that based on the undertone). I have been thinking about a fixed term guaranteed non participating pension plan that offers 6.7% return. Not comparing it to equity returns, but an IRR of over 6.5% over a 25-30 year period for a debt product seems quite reasonable. What am I missing?

 

[ltf4ever]

On a different note, I’m curious to know why 8% isn’t attractive (seemed you were suggesting that based on the undertone). I have been thinking about a fixed term guaranteed non participating pension plan that offers 6.7% return. Not comparing it to equity returns, but an IRR of over 6.5% over a 25-30 year period for a debt product seems quite reasonable. What am I missing?

1. I refuse to buy something from someone who doesn't know how to calculate the numbers that they are pitching me.
2. stupid of banks to think that customers will buy lakhs worth of their plans just by listening to salesman for 10min.
3. you can sit at home, study the documents carefully and take your decision about the product to buy it, but they pressurise you to do it right away without giving you any time.
4. banks ignore the pain points and complaints of customers regarding normal account maintenance, and instead of focusing on the main complaint, they assign sales people to sell some product. that would enrage any customer.

 

[ALOAK]

I already have a Wealth account in SBI and it is one of the worst bank in providing customer services. RM, staff employees and Branch Manager doesn't know how to solve basic banking problems and everytime they have to take help from other senior members of SBI to resolve issues. For basic SBI saving accounts, branch manager won't even try to help customers and will say to come in the evening or tomorrow in a never ending infinite loop. Experience may differ from branch to branch but do not expect any extra-ordinary customer service from SBI.

Because in govt banks access is step by step. Not all can access everything. They have a set of rules who can do how much. Nowadays days young bankers are half baked ones. Only the senior most will know much abt banking. It is my experience form past few years and put banks are pathetic in every form they only want you to invest invest for their commission butni have demister from investing although I hold hdfc for my convenience axis was my salary account which I shifted to citi now that Citi is taken by axis am back again. Axis is the worst along with icici but very few youngsters know banking rest are all dumkopff means stupid. I get so much of call for loans investment I have blocked everything even then get calls. Have to do dnd although my long time sbi account I don't get calls except two or three calls a year abt luge insurance that is all. Rest when I visit branch they do it promptly or give me a date when it gets done or they say atms and deposit machine. Govt banks are crowded as those were the primary banks and for all govt schemes best to have govt banks not private. Put banks they loot u r money if they see a lakh or 3 in your account u r bombarded with calls.

 

[ALOAK]

My recent experience with idfc I was offered 10k variant zero amb after video kyc rhey saidnit is 10k amb. I protested and showed the email confirmation called care one says it is opened with zero amb waiver and another says no they don't have zero amb. Made lot of calls to care and visited branch and the branch rep is no different parroting same thing we don't have although I showed she is saying put funds I asked putting funds is different but offer can u honor it she says they don't have she read the email and she is trying to says it is zero fee account i said read again then she says yes later checks service no and says it is still not approved asked what u mean not approved it is still assigned i escalated it to pno still they sent email saying had called could not reach when I check mobile nothing. Then lady in branch said wait for two days business if it is not you can come and we all close the account. I said ok looks like a very bad commitment and lies by idfc . I showed all screen shot and emails received regarding the zero amb account. Today or tommorrow I will call branch and check of not close the account and say bye bye. Never get involved with pvt banks . I was planning to keep some heavy funds now they lost it.

 

[rockking1994]

On a different note, I’m curious to know why 8% isn’t attractive (seemed you were suggesting that based on the undertone). I have been thinking about a fixed term guaranteed non participating pension plan that offers 6.7% return. Not comparing it to equity returns, but an IRR of over 6.5% over a 25-30 year period for a debt product seems quite reasonable. What am I missing?

A simpe FD will give you around 7% return and withdraw many any time with like 0.5 percent penalty
But if you buy a policy you get 8% return with lock in of 40 years that is lets say you are 25 years old than you will get the money at the age of 65 that is more than the average human life expectancy in india
In case you need the money for some emergency the penalty for early withdrawal is very high what is the garuntee in 40 year life span you will never need that money
Check this chart and link its how a policy surrender works note how it’s placed at the bottom of pdf

https://www.hdfclife.com/content/dam/hdfclifeinsurancecompany/products-page/brochure-pdf/new-brochure/HDFC-LIFE-GIIP-BROCHURE.pdf

 

[gautamcool]

Lol. My RM at trying to sell me some crap investment product. I told him I will buy if he will send me an Excel with the assumptions, reason behind taking the assumption and calculations and come up with an estimate number and proper explanations. He hates me now.

Similar experience with my HDFC RM. In the end of call he usually transfers me to Insurance selling team.
First time a guy tried to sell some Tata AIA product. Despite me asking him what kind of product is this multiple times, he kept ignoring me and said it was guaranteed returns. Fought
with him for last 5 mins of the call as he was trying to missell insurance product.
When RM called me next time after a month, I let my RM know abt this unhappy incident and he prepped the next sales guy from Aditya Birla Sun Insurance for me. This guy clearly mentioned it's an insurance product and then proceeded to explain it clearly. While I was happy with his explanation, the returns and tenure were horrible.
RM called me next day if I was interested in it, I calculated the returns in Excel and showed him that it's giving only 5 percent return over a locked in period of 20 years. And I asked him why will I invest in this over FD when it's giving more returns with much more flexible tenure.
RM never transferred me to selling team again

 

[kjs]

1. I refuse to buy something from someone who doesn't know how to calculate the numbers that they are pitching me.
2. stupid of banks to think that customers will buy lakhs worth of their plans just by listening to salesman for 10min.
3. you can sit at home, study the documents carefully and take your decision about the product to buy it, but they pressurise you to do it right away without giving you any time.
4. banks ignore the pain points and complaints of customers regarding normal account maintenance, and instead of focusing on the main complaint, they assign sales people to sell some product. that would enrage any customer.

True that !! We should do our analysis , if we really want to take it

I don't think that there is any such rule. But it would be very convenient to have an SB account along with it. Maintaining the PPF account would then be effortless through netbanking (that is, if you do it at SBI. I'm talking from personal experience).

U opened ppf through mobile app or net banking ?

 

[Trust Me]

U opened ppf through mobile app or net banking ?

Neither of those two things was invented yet! .

I had it opened through my agent. He took care of the maintenance part as well. So the pains of such banking in those days didn't really register on me! .

 

[kjs]

1. I refuse to buy something from someone who doesn't know how to calculate the numbers that they are pitching me.
2. stupid of banks to think that customers will buy lakhs worth of their plans just by listening to salesman for 10min.
3. you can sit at home, study the documents carefully and take your decision about the product to buy it, but they pressurise you to do it right away without giving you any time.
4. banks ignore the pain points and complaints of customers regarding normal account maintenance, and instead of focusing on the main complaint, they assign sales people to sell some product. that would enrage any customer.

True that !! We should do our analysis , if we really want to take it

Similar experience with my HDFC RM. In the end of call he usually transfers me to Insurance selling team.
First time a guy tried to sell some Tata AIA product. Despite me asking him what kind of product is this multiple times, he kept ignoring me and said it was guaranteed returns. Fought
with him for last 5 mins of the call as he was trying to missell insurance product.
When RM called me next time after a month, I let my RM know abt this unhappy incident and he prepped the next sales guy from Aditya Birla Sun Insurance for me. This guy clearly mentioned it's an insurance product and then proceeded to explain it clearly. While I was happy with his explanation, the returns and tenure were horrible.
RM called me next day if I was interested in it, I calculated the returns in Excel and showed him that it's giving only 5 percent return over a locked in period of 20 years. And I asked him why will I invest in this over FD when it's giving more returns with much more flexible tenure.
RM never transferred me to selling team again

Similar experience with AXIS , RM transferred to some ULIP sales Person telling ki bus sir ap jan lo ekdam mast plan hai yeh.Then researched some thing about ulip. Told him a big no. Then after few days he transferred to some health insurance person. Took the policy but he was forcing to take me a big premium policy which was absolutely not reqd. Later msgd him tht i want to cancel policy as per rules of IRDA. no replies. Cancelled on my own and then closed AXIS account forever

 

[Tirajat]

A simpe FD will give you around 7% return and withdraw many any time with like 0.5 percent penalty
But if you buy a policy you get 8% return with lock in of 40 years that is lets say you are 25 years old than you will get the money at the age of 65 that is more than the average human life expectancy in india
In case you need the money for some emergency the penalty for early withdrawal is very high what is the garuntee in 40 year life span you will never need that money
Check this chart and link its how a policy surrender works note how it’s placed at the bottom of pdf
View attachment 25578

https://www.hdfclife.com/content/dam/hdfclifeinsurancecompany/products-page/brochure-pdf/new-brochure/HDFC-LIFE-GIIP-BROCHURE.pdf

I have been looking it from an IRR perspective. As economies mature, the interest rates only come down. I remember doing FDs at 9-10% in 2012. Even with recent hike in interest rates, we haven't touched 8%. If one gets opportunity to lock in an IRR with pay-out over next 15 years and then pay-in over the subsequent 15, with guaranteed IRR of 7%, it doesn't sound too bad to me. Yes, FD will give higher return, but that's assuming you have the corpus available to invest today because over the coming years, interest rates will only trend down. I can invest say, 5L today in FD, but the next 5 L next year will be at lower rate and the 5L next to next year at even lower rate. Am I still getting it wrong.

P.S. I am 40 and looking to create an investment corpus. A guaranteed pension product seemed decent as I pay 5L every year for next 15 years and get 10L every year for next block of 15 years, and 85L and end of 30 years.

 

[kjs]

I have been looking it from an IRR perspective. As economies mature, the interest rates only come down. I remember doing FDs at 9-10% in 2012. Even with recent hike in interest rates, we haven't touched 8%. If one gets opportunity to lock in an IRR with pay-out over next 15 years and then pay-in over the subsequent 15, with guaranteed IRR of 7%, it doesn't sound too bad to me. Yes, FD will give higher return, but that's assuming you have the corpus available to invest today because over the coming years, interest rates will only trend down. I can invest say, 5L today in FD, but the next 5 L next year will be at lower rate and the 5L next to next year at even lower rate. Am I still getting it wrong.

P.S. I am 40 and looking to create an investment corpus. A guaranteed pension product seemed decent as I pay 5L every year for next 15 years and get 10L every year for next block of 15 years, and 85L and end of 30 years.

See at the end these are pvt companies, there are always t&c (better to take this from known person these bank executive will hop from 1 bank to another and will forget who u are later). so u can invest systematically in below schemes.
1. Lic
2.Multi Asset allocation Fund
3. Hybrid mutual fund
4. FRSB
5. PPF
6. NPS
7. Any decent guaranteed plan which u were telling that should give u 8%
8.Increase contribution in nps and epfo if ur company allows and if u are salaried.
9.SGB

Divide amount between 1&7 , keep major portion in LIC.

This is my understanding. Finance experts in the group can definitely correct where ever reqd as i am not a finance guy.

 

[Tirajat]

See at the end these are pvt companies, there are always t&c (better to take this from known person these bank executive will hop from 1 bank to another and will forget who u are later). so u can invest systematically in below schemes.
1. Lic
2.Multi Asset allocation Fund
3. Hybrid mutual fund
4. FRSB
5. PPF
6. NPS
7. Any decent guaranteed plan which u were telling that should give u 8%
8.Increase contribution in nps and epfo if ur company allows and if u are salaried.
9.SGB

Divide amount between 1&7 , keep major portion in LIC.

This is my understanding. Finance experts in the group can definitely correct where ever reqd as i am not a finance guy.

Thanks for the comprehensive list. It’s really helpful. I am not salaried, but have subscribed to NPS. Make 1.5L contribution every year to my own and my son’s PPF account. Have some investments in real estate, SGBs, mutual funds (which include multi asset funds as well) and directly through stock picking in equity markets. I’m looking to hedge my risks in RE and equity through a “guaranteed” plan, assuming it exists (have been told so by the bank but need to verify). On a positive note, HDFC agree to provide a FYF Infinia on subscribing to such pension plan (which I was anyway contemplating).

What is FRSB?

Separately, based on what I read in the thread, it seemed a 7-8% guaranteed return plan didn’t seem attractive to many and I am trying to get my head around it. Any investment that provides guaranteed returns of nearly 7% over a 30 year period in an economy like India (as I mentioned above, I see a declining trend in interest rates in the coming decades, lower tops and lower bottoms) seems quite reasonable - once again, not comparing to equity but looking at it as a guaranteed debt product! But May be I’m missing a nuance here wrt why such a product isn’t appealing to majority. May be my age

 

[kjs]

Thanks for the comprehensive list. It’s really helpful. I am not salaried, but have subscribed to NPS. Make 1.5L contribution every year to my own and my son’s PPF account. Have some investments in real estate, SGBs, mutual funds (which include multi asset funds as well) and directly through stock picking in equity markets. I’m looking to hedge my risks in RE and equity through a “guaranteed” plan, assuming it exists (have been told so by the bank but need to verify). On a positive note, HDFC agree to provide a FYF Infinia on subscribing to such pension plan (which I was anyway contemplating).

What is FRSB?

Separately, based on what I read in the thread, it seemed a 7-8% guaranteed return plan didn’t seem attractive to many and I am trying to get my head around it. Any investment that provides guaranteed returns of nearly 7% over a 30 year period in an economy like India (as I mentioned above, I see a declining trend in interest rates in the coming decades, lower tops and lower bottoms) seems quite reasonable - once again, not comparing to equity but looking at it as a guaranteed debt product! But May be I’m missing a nuance here wrt why such a product isn’t appealing to majority. May be my age

FARB - Floating rate Saving bonds (RBI)

Yeah 8% dont attract people in 30's also the t&c can be a deciding factor too. Also government these days bring stringent rules related to investment and withdrawal options so going that long in these with a huge capital can be a ? . Also these are not government affiliated so again trust factor there , however can be started with a small amount, rest try to find similar plans in LIC. Also seeing the returns of equity people have diverted their minds there also FD offer similar these days. So it might not attract now but later when FD rates are down. But i have seen when FD rates were down some 15-20 months back these Guaranteed plan ROI return was also down. Big example i can give u is Hdfc Sanchay plus 15 20 months back when a banker pitched me it was 6% guaranteed not sure what it is now. Ideally ppl take a big term plan clubbed with Equity investment in MF SIP so u dont need guaranteed plan in that case as your returns are covered in MF and insurance are covered in Term plan.

In my case i have taken Term plan of 2cr. And do not opt for any plans that are insurance linked(combination of returns+ insurance). Now i go only for high ROI (MF sip). But will also start to invest in government schemes to keep portfolio diversified.

You can do a calculation of 12% sip return of X amount for X no of years + money in term insurance premium and compare with the guaranteed plan insurance premium & returns not sure if you get the exact accuracy but atleast a high level understanding

 

[funatlearn]

I dont think so we can open ppf without a bank account. So talking about both ppf and sb account. Yes SBI net banking is very much good

I have opened ppf acc without saving account in sbi. Now I also have savings account but ope much later.

 

[SamPtnk]

I told the sales guy to give 80% of his commission
He hasnt called me after that

 

[psmangat5]

a

Being salaried person never used banking services agressively as a Business Person would do. But since last 2 years have been using , enquiring banking services , accounts for various reasons like Personal Loans ,Home Loans , Credit Cards , lockers etc as part of actual needs but have noticed one common things especially amongst private banks , they tend to sell you some or the other crap policies or ask you to do some or other Fds. Some times they would even keep ur actual query/problem aside and start being a sales man/ women.

I know they have orders from seniors who have targets from their seniors and so on...

Faced / Facing these issues with

HDFC bank - Now recently RM has started pitching me to start MF sip , already told her doing sip since my bachpan. Today visited branch for PPF query, they were prompt and solved query then the executive there was like mast plan batata hu apko guaranteed wala PPF se jyada intrest wala hai aur usse better. The other lady started entering my details in system and explained me then shes like u want to take it. I was like 15L investment plan u want me to decide in less than 15mins for ur X % commission seriously got fed up and then shes like will call you on Tuesday. A few such instances from HDFC before also but always stayed away at the end only took what i needed.

ICICI - Any time i just check offer in iMobile next day get minimum 5 calls , have added my no in their dnd list. Thank god i dont have any RM assigned

Axis - Baap of Sales bank, Bank employee ,RMs bus lelo sab policy lelo.RMs are pathetic,Bank employee force to open FD always. Just once in 1 branch i have seen employee who genuinely solved my issue aftr i visited 3 times for the same he was the only one who did not pitch me anything. But closed account as RM was a sales man.

Kotak : Opened 811 ,aftr 1 month got 15 20 calls for 2 3 days related to CC , Escalated on twitter finally some relief. Free mein CC kyu nahi chaiye. I told free mein mall mein ac ka hava khane milta hai toh waha chale jao,call disconnected.

I have noticed one thing that if you start buying thru them ur complex issues will get sorted out else chakkar kat teh raho same branch k ya toh dusri branch jao.

This issue is not there wil PSU banks in my exp(Used BOI, currently using UNION & BOB)might be in some cases but very much less than Private Banks. Have decided going forward not to open account with any Private Banks infact will close a couple from above based on behaviour

Now slowly PSU are improving their service and app experience is also getting better with top 3- 4 PSU's atleast and branch reach is also more. Also their main intention is to provide services to every type of Indian Citizen and not just to sell policies and they are doing decently well. Exceptions are always there. And overall service rates are competitive. Its just they are over crowded at times.

I think 1-2 Decent Pvt bank account is enough to hold for services but these days even Pvt banks have started asking to visit branches for silly things.

Ppl can share their experience. Some thing different to discuss about

aaj kal PSUs me bhi bahot pressure hai Insurance Policies ka and we don't even get commission, just selling them to meet our targets else get verbally thrashed in meetings

 

[Trust Me]

aaj kal PSUs me bhi bahot pressure hai Insurance Policies ka and we don't even get commission, just selling them to meet our targets else get verbally thrashed in meetings

Are Indian banks aware of the fact that such things may actually annoy their customers to the detriment of the banks' interests?