Hotel Points I made a mistake by picking AMEX as my main card - Marriot isn't for me

[kaykayporty]

I agree with your views. I also started on the Trifecta journey earlier this year and I realised this when I started itself because when I did a casual search for good Mariott priorities even in India, the point requirement is quite high. Still, I felt it would suit me as my plan is do a trip every 2 years. I guess the average (non-influencer) Amex holder can achieve only this...

Yeah, long term for a fancier thing, AMEX works.

But day to day, Atlas is going to wipe the floor with its value in Accor transfer.

Has anyone here posted about using Atlas for their trip with exact transfer and points to economical hotels like Novotel or Ibis?

 

[nikhilk21]

Yeah, long term for a fancier thing, AMEX works.

But day to day, Atlas is going to wipe the floor with its value in Accor transfer.

Has anyone here posted about using Atlas for their trip with exact transfer and points to economical hotels like Novotel or Ibis?

If Atlas works for your expenses, it's a great card. It doesn't work for me as there are way too many unnecessary exclusions like jewellery for reward points as well as milestone count. I'm using HDFC Reg Gold as my primary non-Amex card as the exclusions are better.

Search in this sub-forum regd. travel experiences

Travelling & Experiences

www.technofino.in

 

[kaykayporty]

If Atlas works for your expenses, it's a great card. It doesn't work for me as there are way too many unnecessary exclusions like jewellery for reward points as well as milestone count. I'm using HDFC Reg Gold as my primary non-Amex card as the exclusions are better.

Search in this sub-forum regd. travel experiences

Travelling & Experiences

www.technofino.in

Thank you for the sub-forum link, that's exactly what I wanted!

My regular monthly expenses are as follows:

1. Uber - 3-4K per month
2. Bigbasket - 4K per month
3. Swiggy - 3000 per month
4. Amazon (very minimal and have APay CC)
5. Offline dining twice a month - Total 5K
6. All bill payments - Electricity, Internet - Total on average 5500
7. Once/Twice a month - a movie - 1000 per month
8. Other miscellaneous expenses mostly offline.

• Yearly subscriptions (Spotify, Google One)
• Once a year insurance spend - 20K

Would Atlas work for these specially if I use GYFTR for utilities? Would it provide me more value than MRCC based on the context you have?

Yearly expenditure - 10L on CC.

---

I'm thinking of ditching MRCC. First and foremost, Atlas/Regalia Gold + Amex Plat Travel.

 

[malavkarkar]

Marriott Bonvoy program is well designed for frequent travelers and will almost never work for you if you're only doing one or two award trips in a year. It's more like a give-and-take relationship.

It's better to stick to programs like Smartbuy or Accor where you get a fixed value of points, and more importantly where your entire stay will be covered with points.

 

[kaykayporty]

Marriott Bonvoy program is well designed for frequent travelers and will almost never work for you if you're only doing one or two award trips in a year. It's more like a give-and-take relationship.

It's better to stick to programs like Smartbuy or Accor where you get a fixed value of points, and more importantly where your entire stay will be covered with points.

Yeah, that's what I learned just by planning these trips.

Now, I'm going to choose between Regalia Gold and Atlas. Hopefully, ditch MRCC.

I'm not very keen on Atlas (because Axis is shitty) but if that's what I have to get to get the most value, so be it.

 

[malavkarkar]

Yeah, that's what I learned just by planning these trips.

Now, I'm going to choose between Regalia Gold and Atlas. Hopefully, ditch MRCC.

I'm not very keen on Atlas (because Axis is shitty) but if that's what I have to get to get the most value, so be it.

Do look into Hilton as well. You can transfer your points to Hilton, and while Marriott focuses more on luxury, Hilton does have some budget options.

Be very careful about Accor though. It's all fun and games as long as you're doing one-two award trips in a year, without paying anything out of the pocket. Once your travel increases, you'd want to switch to a good loyalty program like Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt. Try not to get into the Accor rut, it's one of the worst loyalty programs ever designed.

Regarding Atlas, it has a ceiling where you won't be able to transfer out more than 30k miles in a year. It's like opening a bank account from where you can't withdraw above a certain limit, irrespective of how much money you have. Personally I prefer to avoid such cards. Amex and HDFC doesn't have such minuscule transfer limits.

 

[nikhilk21]

Thank you for the sub-forum link, that's exactly what I wanted!

My regular monthly expenses are as follows:

1. Uber - 3-4K per month
2. Bigbasket - 4K per month
3. Swiggy - 3000 per month
4. Amazon (very minimal and have APay CC)
5. Offline dining twice a month - Total 5K
6. All bill payments - Electricity, Internet - Total on average 5500
7. Once/Twice a month - a movie - 1000 per month
8. Other miscellaneous expenses mostly offline.

• Yearly subscriptions (Spotify, Google One)
• Once a year insurance spend - 20K

Would Atlas work for these specially if I use GYFTR for utilities? Would it provide me more value than MRCC based on the context you have?

Yearly expenditure - 10L on CC.

---

I'm thinking of ditching MRCC. First and foremost, Atlas/Regalia Gold + Amex Plat Travel.

Atlas would work for your spends but total value seems ~2.5-3L for the year? With this you will not achieve any Atlas milestones. See this detailed and up to date thread on comparison b/w Atlas and Reg Gold

Thread 'AXIS Atlas vs HDFC Regalia Gold vs AXIS Horizon'

May 11, 2024

This is a wiki post, so anyone with appropriate permissions can edit and make necessary changes.

General Note:​

Redemption calculations are assumptions for illustrative purposes and may vary. Please confirm specific terms directly with card issuers.

---

Terminology:​

• EM: Edge Miles (Axis Rewards)
• RP: Reward Points (HDFC Rewards)
• FYF: First Year Free
• JF: Joining Fee
• LTF: Lifetime Free
• AF: Annual Fee
• BV: Brand Vouchers (e.g., Regalia Gold Milestone Benefit)
• SFV: SmartBuy Flight Voucher...

• helloworld
• Replies: 47
• Forum: Credit Card Comparison

• 
• 

 

[likith_jogi]

Even I saw some youtube video and applied for Amex Gold Card, received within a week. but now i think the points are not so good to use.
i was looking for atlas, but its not worth it for me. to much of exclusions, i wont be able to earn so much points.
there is also restrictions on withdrawing points.
can please tell me how did u earn 80k points within a year with amex?

 

[nikhilk21]

Thank you for the sub-forum link, that's exactly what I wanted!

My regular monthly expenses are as follows:

1. Uber - 3-4K per month
2. Bigbasket - 4K per month
3. Swiggy - 3000 per month
4. Amazon (very minimal and have APay CC)
5. Offline dining twice a month - Total 5K
6. All bill payments - Electricity, Internet - Total on average 5500
7. Once/Twice a month - a movie - 1000 per month
8. Other miscellaneous expenses mostly offline.

• Yearly subscriptions (Spotify, Google One)
• Once a year insurance spend - 20K

Would Atlas work for these specially if I use GYFTR for utilities? Would it provide me more value than MRCC based on the context you have?

Yearly expenditure - 10L on CC.

---

I'm thinking of ditching MRCC. First and foremost, Atlas/Regalia Gold + Amex Plat Travel.

I see that you've mentioned CC spends are 10L. But the ones you mentioned add up to ~3L only. Ensure your other spends are not in the excluded category of Atlas. A good thing about Amex that exclusions are very minimal. Here's another good thread on MRCC vs Reg Gold.

K

Thread 'MRCC vs Regalia Gold'

Sep 5, 2024

I've had the AMEX MRCC for about 6 months now. The thing is I also have the Plat Travel and I hate the monthly nonsense I have to do with Gift cards for the MRCC.

I much rather prefer the yearly milestone with the Plat Travel.

I also have a LTF Regalia. I'm wondering if it is worth upgrading to FYF Regalia Gold.

My yearly expenses would around 7 lakhs on combined on credit cards. My only comparison would be value derived from these cards - nothing else.

---

GYFTR is quite a hassle with multiple minimum INR 1500 transactions and then the 20K milestone as well.

The milestone...

• kaykayporty
• gold mrcc regalia regalia gold
• Replies: 26
• Forum: Credit Card Comparison

 

[malavkarkar]

I have a booking at Stripes Kuala Lumpur for 7 nights for 60k points and Westin Desaru Coast for 5 nights for 80k points. Pretty good peak-season redemption options if you're looking at Malaysia.

For Japan, I was able to book Courtyard Tokyo Ginza for 5 nights for 162k points. It's a good cash to points rate considering how expensive Marriott hotels are in Tokyo, and 80k points pretty much won't get you anything in major cities in Japan.

 

[kaykayporty]

Do look into Hilton as well. You can transfer your points to Hilton, and while Marriott focuses more on luxury, Hilton does have some budget options.

Be very careful about Accor though. It's all fun and games as long as you're doing one-two award trips in a year, without paying anything out of the pocket. Once your travel increases, you'd want to switch to a good loyalty program like Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt. Try not to get into the Accor rut, it's one of the worst loyalty programs ever designed.

Regarding Atlas, it has a ceiling where you won't be able to transfer out more than 30k miles in a year. It's like opening a bank account from where you can't withdraw above a certain limit, irrespective of how much money you have. Personally I prefer to avoid such cards. Amex and HDFC doesn't have such minuscule transfer limits.

I thought Hilton was even more expensive than Marriot. Looks like I'll have to check it out, boss!

I doubt I'll be able to even earn 30K miles in a year haha but I'll keep that in mind. That's a weird rule for a travel focused card.

 

[narun2001]

Do look into Hilton as well. You can transfer your points to Hilton, and while Marriott focuses more on luxury, Hilton does have some budget options.

Be very careful about Accor though. It's all fun and games as long as you're doing one-two award trips in a year, without paying anything out of the pocket. Once your travel increases, you'd want to switch to a good loyalty program like Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt. Try not to get into the Accor rut, it's one of the worst loyalty programs ever designed.

Regarding Atlas, it has a ceiling where you won't be able to transfer out more than 30k miles in a year. It's like opening a bank account from where you can't withdraw above a certain limit, irrespective of how much money you have. Personally I prefer to avoid such cards. Amex and HDFC doesn't have such minuscule transfer limits.

Could you please explain why Accor is badly designed? I have been using M4B and Atlas and have stayed in a couple of accor hotels and so far, have had pleasant experiences.

 

[kaykayporty]

Atlas would work for your spends but total value seems ~2.5-3L for the year? With this you will not achieve any Atlas milestones. See this detailed and up to date thread on comparison b/w Atlas and Reg Gold

Thread 'AXIS Atlas vs HDFC Regalia Gold vs AXIS Horizon'

May 11, 2024

This is a wiki post, so anyone with appropriate permissions can edit and make necessary changes.

General Note:​

Redemption calculations are assumptions for illustrative purposes and may vary. Please confirm specific terms directly with card issuers.

---

Terminology:​

• EM: Edge Miles (Axis Rewards)
• RP: Reward Points (HDFC Rewards)
• FYF: First Year Free
• JF: Joining Fee
• LTF: Lifetime Free
• AF: Annual Fee
• BV: Brand Vouchers (e.g., Regalia Gold Milestone Benefit)
• SFV: SmartBuy Flight Voucher...

• helloworld
• Replies: 47
• Forum: Credit Card Comparison

• 
• 

Sorry, I should've mentioned that regular monthly expenses are close to 30K a month on CC (fixed expenses)

But when I include travel + other things that I buy - the total at the end of the year on all cards is around 10L.

 

[kaykayporty]

I have a booking at Stripes Kuala Lumpur for 7 nights for 60k points and Westin Desaru Coast for 5 nights for 80k points. Pretty good peak-season redemption options if you're looking at Malaysia.

For Japan, I was able to book Courtyard Tokyo Ginza for 5 nights for 162k points. It's a good cash to points rate considering how expensive Marriott hotels are in Tokyo, and 80k points pretty much won't get you anything in major cities in Japan.

Thanks for the hints on Kuala Lumpur and Desaru Coast. Those are fantastic!

Yeah, I'm learning that now. I'll probably do direct payment to something like Ibis.

For now, looking at Hong Kong as an option since Japan is also otherwise expensive (and I'll need a shopping budget also)

 

[kaykayporty]

Could you please explain why Accor is badly designed? I have been using M4B and Atlas and have stayed in a couple of accor hotels and so far, have had pleasant experiences.

From what I understood is that when you travel regularly - you might not prefer a somewhat regular hotel.

You will prefer the relationship and the extra comfort and services that you get in a higher end hotel. You would spend a good amount of time in the hotel and build long term relationships as well loyalty points for staying there. Those aspects don't do well with Accor.

I recently stayed at a Novotel in Thailand and I can understand the point they're making.

When you're travelling once or twice a year (like I would), the hotel should be alright as we would just use it to crash at night and the main focus is on the destination.

Small things can be ignored or forgiven when you're there for a week or so. But when you're travelling more than 50 days a year - you don't want drama, you want comfort and convenience.

 

[DarkShadow]

I agree with your views. I also started on the Trifecta journey earlier this year and I realised this when I started itself because when I did a casual search for good Mariott priorities even in India, the point requirement is quite high. Still, I felt it would suit me as my plan is do a trip every 2 years. I guess the average (non-influencer) Amex holder can achieve only this...

Yes, the thing with aspirational travel - once every couple of years is:
- By the time one saves enough points (or they think they have saved enough points - if they casually looks at the points required once in a whole while); they are hit hard with the fact of devaluations; at time at both ends - earning partner (card) as well as the redemption partner's loyalty program. Couple of years down, the property / seat is not going to cost as much as it did when one aspired.
- One needs to be really flexible to get best values - for dates, options as well as location itself! It needs to be planned 6 months to a year in advance.

Regular Joes like us cannot fully play the system unless loopholes are exploited, a lot of referrals are being used. Further, we in India don't have the humongous sign up bonuses that US market is known for and the number of exclusions we have in unheard of there. Card holders in US get more points for spends on fuel, insurances, utilities, etc, whereas we are here penalised. Secondly, due to the cost of living there (and hence the spends on card) and the % of points earned is higher than average here in India. Because of this the whole system is being skewed resulting in sparse availability of rooms / seats and frequent devaluations rendering our once aspirational travel still a dream (or a while goose chase) in the future.

 

[Card_prof]

Do look into Hilton as well. You can transfer your points to Hilton, and while Marriott focuses more on luxury, Hilton does have some budget options.

Be very careful about Accor though. It's all fun and games as long as you're doing one-two award trips in a year, without paying anything out of the pocket. Once your travel increases, you'd want to switch to a good loyalty program like Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt. Try not to get into the Accor rut, it's one of the worst loyalty programs ever designed.

Regarding Atlas, it has a ceiling where you won't be able to transfer out more than 30k miles in a year. It's like opening a bank account from where you can't withdraw above a certain limit, irrespective of how much money you have. Personally I prefer to avoid such cards. Amex and HDFC doesn't have such minuscule transfer limits.

Somehow I found more value in accor because of its fixed value and have already stayed more than 100 days this year in accor hotels in India and abroad. Most of my stays were through reward points and they really try to provide me good service. Therefore, if someone looking for budget travelling the accor groups seems best

 

[malavkarkar]

Could you please explain why Accor is badly designed? I have been using M4B and Atlas and have stayed in a couple of accor hotels and so far, have had pleasant experiences.

It's more about how the program is structured than the experience.

If you're doing a limited number of vacations in a year, and you're able to cover all these expenses using Accor points, it will work fine for you. But if you're spending additional money here, I'd recommend switching to Marriott, because Accor's reward rate is terrible. I'll try to explain this in detail.

When you spend $100 at a participating Marriott hotel, you earn 1,000 points at base status and 1,750 points at top status. The reward rate here is 10% and 17.5% respectively. And this is without all the bonus points that Marriott offers for stays as part of either promotion or welcome gifts, and sometimes both!

When you spend $100 at a participating Accor hotel, you earn 234 points at base status and 467 points at top status. The reward rate here is 2.34% and 4.67% respectively.

This is also the reason you are able to value Accor points at ₹1.8, because these are harder to earn compared to Marriott Bonvoy points. So far in the first 6 months of FY 24-25, I've spent ₹473k at participating Marriott hotels and earned 98k points against the same. That's a reward rate of 20.7% in itself, and this number would be significantly lower, close to 22k without bonus points if any, in case of Accor.

And on top of this, Accor doesn't care about its members. With Accor Platinum status, you get complimentary breakfast only in Asia-Pacific. With Accor Diamond which is the top status, you get complimentary breakfast everywhere, but only on weekends. For comparision, Marriott gives you complimentary breakfast everywhere at 27 of their 32 brands. Status recognition in Marriott is much better than Accor. The only brand that does this better than Marriott is Hyatt.

And the final point is lifetime status. With Marriott, if you manage to get Platinum Elite status for 10 years and spend 600 nights at their hotels, you become lifetime Platinum Elite. Which means for any years if you're not able to travel at all, you don't get demoted. Accor doesn't have any concept of lifetime status.

 

[malavkarkar]

Somehow I found more value in accor because of its fixed value and have already stayed more than 100 days this year in accor hotels in India and abroad. Most of my stays were through reward points and they really try to provide me good service. Therefore, if someone looking for budget travelling the accor groups seems best

Explained the differences in my other comment. I have been a Marriott Titanium member for some years now and I personally don't think that Accor can match this experience. And if you are doing a lot of revenue bookings in your 100 nights of travel, you are indeed missing out on a lot of points, considering how low Accor's earnings rate is. But do consider switching once, even Marriott's Platinum status will blow Accor's top tier status out of the water.

 

[kaykayporty]

It's more about how the program is structured than the experience.

If you're doing a limited number of vacations in a year, and you're able to cover all these expenses using Accor points, it will work fine for you. But if you're spending additional money here, I'd recommend switching to Marriott, because Accor's reward rate is terrible. I'll try to explain this in detail.

When you spend $100 at a participating Marriott hotel, you earn 1,000 points at base status and 1,750 points at top status. The reward rate here is 10% and 17.5% respectively. And this is without all the bonus points that Marriott offers for stays as part of either promotion or welcome gifts, and sometimes both!

When you spend $100 at a participating Accor hotel, you earn 234 points at base status and 467 points at top status. The reward rate here is 2.34% and 4.67% respectively.

This is also the reason you are able to value Accor points at ₹1.8, because these are harder to earn compared to Marriott Bonvoy points. So far in the first 6 months of FY 24-25, I've spent ₹473k at participating Marriott hotels and earned 98k points against the same. That's a reward rate of 20.7% in itself, and this number would be significantly lower, close to 22k without bonus points if any, in case of Accor.

And on top of this, Accor doesn't care about its members. With Accor Platinum status, you get complimentary breakfast only in Asia-Pacific. With Accor Diamond which is the top status, you get complimentary breakfast everywhere, but only on weekends. For comparision, Marriott gives you complimentary breakfast everywhere at 27 of their 32 brands. Status recognition in Marriott is much better than Accor. The only brand that does this better than Marriott is Hyatt.

And the final point is lifetime status. With Marriott, if you manage to get Platinum Elite status for 10 years and spend 600 nights at their hotels, you become lifetime Platinum Elite. Which means for any years if you're not able to travel at all, you don't get demoted. Accor doesn't have any concept of lifetime status.

I agree it is harder to earn points for Accor but also that they're much, much cheaper specially if your target is Ibis/Novotel.

I do agree about the status part - sure. But that comes after a certain point.

I think most of us (including me) are beginners here. This is our first or second points transfer redemption.

Marriot (and Hilton) with all they bring to the table isn't a priority for us. Some of us just want a hotel for a week or so with the basics covered.