Infinia vs Magnus vs Atlas

[raviemailid]

BACKGROUND STORY:

I had no credit card till June 2021 because of bad credit. I had defaulted on a couple of credit cards about a decade ago and had decided to stick to debit cards and real money for my needs. All of this was going good - I was paying full money for amazon, Flipkart shopping, full money for Zomato, Swiggy, Uber and for anything that you can think of. Life was simple.

But I always wished if I had a credit card - especially the Amazon ICICI credit card - I was a moderate user of Amazon and having the luxury of 5% cash back on everything was nothing short of a dream for me. This thought pushed me to apply for it and it got rejected, obviously. I approached the bank - visited the branch nearby, something that I hadn't done for 5 years. ICICI bank was good and friendly - helped me close my old credit card and issued me a credit card against an FD. Well, they also took 2L cheque for opening some premium account. I didn't need all that but the excitement of getting a CC was worth that stupid 2L FD (that FD is still running with them) and I was issued a Coral credit card. I was happy. 6 months later, after many applications and requests, I was issued an Amazon ICICI Pay credit card and then, after some time, I got Flipkart Axis.

I was on cloud 9 - all my credit card dreams were fulfilled, I was saving 5% flat from FK and Amazon plus some sundry 4% cashback from other apps and a flat 1.5% cashback on all the spends for FK Axis. I moved all my expenses to CC and migrated to cred for bill payments. I also got my hands on Zomato RBL card (which became shoprite card), IndusInd Legend and SBI BPCL card. All of this was good for some 10 months. Then in one of my persuasive conversations with my HDFC RM, the bank I have the longest and heaviest relationship with, but also the one refusing to issue me a credit card, sprang a surprise. Guess I had bothered her to death saying how can you not give me a credit card when I am your classic customer and ICICI and Axis can. RM, utterly fed-up with me, apologized again and threw a last straw towards me - "sir, are you from IIT/IIM or any premier institute?" I was like, "What do you mean, I am from IIM."

I was issued Diners Club Black - which introduced me to 3.3% cashback and the luxuries of credit cards. I was elated and boasted about it to my wife. Hell, I got her an add-on card for lounge visits. Life was all good for another 10 months.

Then in June - I was introduced to GYFTR - those reward multipliers of 2x, and 3x were insane. I was like - why on earth I am not using these? Then in GYFTR, I saw Infinia listed with better reward points. I went to the HDFC portal and saw that I couldn't apply for it - it was an invitation only. This led me to do more research then I came across sites like TechnoFino, Cardinsider etc and I was totally blown away. I felt how novice of me to be happy with DCB when Magnus was killing it. I tried for Magnus in July and I was issued one. But then, I got the update of devaluation and in a panic state, I cancelled the card when it was issued. The card was still delivered to me though but it is cancelled now.

Now - I was greedy, I wanted Infinia! Spoke to RM, and being the amazing lady she is, she said I can get the paid one - and I have the paid one with me now, using it for the last 1 week. But I have understood that 3.3% is all I have except SmartBuy and GYFTR. So I have been looking for ways to find the ideal card combination for me. Hence the research.

WHY COMPARING THESE?

I have 4 main categories of expenses. The expenses that can be covered with GYFTR, second the direct hotel and flights, 3rd normal hotel and flights and 4 other expenses like insurance, fees (can't use Apay) etc. I feel stupid to have cancelled the Magnus, but I guess that may have been a blessing in disguise. Had it stayed with me, I would have tried for Burgundy status and that is not something I'd like to do with Axis bank.

Below table runs a sample point calculation for my annualized expenses. The three cards in question (Infinia, Magnus and Atlas) has a very acceptable annual charge, so I am ignoring that totally.



Magnus is considered with Burgundy benefits. For Smartbuy considering it is 5x and 10x, I have taken 7x and Traveledge is 5x. It is clear that Atlas is a very strong card but then, I thought, what if I have Atlas+Infinia combination?

So if I use Infinia for GYFTR and SmartBuy I get 33333+46667 = 80000 and Atlas for direct and general, it is 80000+24000=104000, total 184000. Add 15K milestone of Atlas and 20K joining miles from Infinia and Atlas, I have a total of 2,19,000 miles. 12% return against total expense.

Atlas expense can only be used for flight and hotel, whereas Infinia can be routed to Apple and Tanishq and trains as well. This does look like a good main 2 driver cards to use. What do you all think?

I was slightly tempted by Magnus+Burgundy, but I don't want to shift to premium banking of Axis - and as you see from the table, I am not loosing much. What other cards would you recommend?

P.S - I have applied for Atlas, the card is coming in a week!

Thank you for reading.

 

[bonheur]

Can I now claim that my SBI card gives 100% reward rate?

You’re misquoting me with a silly example. I didn’t say 70% is the reward rate, I said 70% is the discount at the time of actual purchase. Whether the reward rate was 3.3% or 33% means zilch if all you get is reward points whose value is fungible and subject to change overnight. All you can really do is optimise the combination of credit cards to maximise your future discount potential.

 

[Lobogris]

You’re misquoting me with a silly example. I didn’t say 70% is the reward rate, I said 70% is the discount at the time of actual purchase. Whether the reward rate was 3.3% or 33% means zilch if all you get is reward points whose value is fungible and subject to change overnight. All you can really do is optimise the combination of credit cards to maximise your future discount potential.

The second portion of your response is the problem I was addressing.

 

[drsel]

You’re misquoting me with a silly example. I didn’t say 70% is the reward rate, I said 70% is the discount at the time of actual purchase. Whether the reward rate was 3.3% or 33% means zilch if all you get is reward points whose value is fungible and subject to change overnight. All you can really do is optimise the combination of credit cards to maximise your future discount potential.

When you spend 112500 per day/month on Smartbuy for vouchers or airtickets, you will collect 15000 + 3750 points.

For the second air ticket of Rs.26786, you can use this 18750 points as 70% payment along with 8036 real money (30%).

Total money spent is 112500 + 8036 = 120536
Total value received is 112500 + 26786 = 139286.

Max.Return.%
=(139286--120536)/139286
=18750/139286
=13.46% at best (without wasting any points)

 

[drsel]

When you spend 112500 per day/month on Smartbuy for vouchers or airtickets, you will collect 15000 + 3750 points.

For the second air ticket of Rs.26786, you can use this 18750 points as 70% payment along with 8036 real money (30%).

Total money spent is 112500 + 8036 = 120536
Total value received is 112500 + 26786 = 139286.
Max.Return.%
=(139286--120536)/139286
=18750/139286
=13.46% at best (without wasting any points)

Now HDFC will not devalue this because they can easily afford to give Infinia card holders 13.46% because they are collecting around 16% commission from the Airlines, considering the huge volumes done.

It is not well known how Axis can afford to give Magnus Burgundy card holders 24% if they are getting only 16%.
Possibly there will be a corresponding markup in the airfares on Traveledge

 

[Yugi]

Ohh of course you are a tenured member. I should have realised. 🙂

But then let me complicate things further for those who think its 70% reward rate.

Here is effective reward rate.
To receive 150 RPs, I have given the expenditure required in both normal, 5X, 10X categories.
I am taking this case because 150 is the minimum spend to receive RPs.
When we spend those 150 RPs, we don't get further RPs.
Which means, on an effective spend of 4650 we got 150 RPs, and similar for 5X, 10X cases.
So effective discount is 3.23% or 14.29% or 25% (which I am still happy with)

PS: The only assumption is its 1:1 redemption for flight/hotel/tanishq etc

Everything else is marketing by HDFC and trying to entice us to spend on unneeded stuff by creating more anxiety.
It doesn't matter how we spend those 150 RPs. It also doesn't matter whether we redeem 70% of flight/hotel booking as points, or less or more. As long as we are able to spend those RPs on "genuine" purchases before the points expire, or before we close the card (or worse, before we die), those RPs are ours to spend.

By putting these limitations on point expiry, HDFC wants us to spend on unnecessary purchases in anxiety.
By putting 70% cap, they further aggravate the situation and delay our redemption, creating anxiety and forcing us to spend on unnecessary purchases.
And if smartbuy marks up further, then even worse.

View attachment 41548

I love this math, I was doing this all along. It is valid for all credit cards except the cashback ones.

 

[bonheur]

When you spend 112500 per day/month on Smartbuy for vouchers or airtickets, you will collect 15000 + 3750 points.

For the second air ticket of Rs.26786, you can use this 18750 points as 70% payment along with 8036 real money (30%).

Total money spent is 112500 + 8036 = 120536
Total value received is 112500 + 26786 = 139286.

Max.Return.%
=(139286--120536)/139286
=18750/139286
=13.46% at best (without wasting any points)

I like your analysis, the only issue is you’re still looking at it from a returns on spends pov, while I’m not.

Btw, what’s the source of the 16% commission you keep talking about?

 

[sid16]

All this discussion going on is subjective. Everyone is trying to find rates of rewards when there is no definite way of getting it. Infinia gives a 1:1 ratio for booking flight/hotel of YOUR CHOICE but of course when it is allowing you to use 70% of points for cash, it doesn't allow a further discount (BTW, this wasn't true few years back, there is an option of apply voucher where a discount used to be valid to waive off convenience fees, but now I don't see any applicable vouchers). Axis Edge Rewards/Miles forces you to take Accor hotels. Amex forces you to take Marriott hotels.

Infinia fan will say that if I don't want to go to Accor or Marriott then both Axis and Amex are useless. Atlas/M4B fans will say that Infinia no longer gives 1:1 Accor conversion and that SmartBuy tickets are overpriced. Amex fans will keep banging about Marriott.

Point is that let's not be fanboys. Let's make use of all cards and get the best juice out of all of them. Remember, all this is temporary. Make hay while the sun shines.

 

[drsel]

I like your analysis, the only issue is you’re still looking at it from a returns on spends pov, while I’m not.

Btw, what’s the source of the 16% commission you keep talking about?

Just google airline commissions for domestic and international flights.
Domestic: 0-5%
International: 10-22%

 

[SSV]

It is not well known how Axis can afford to give Magnus Burgundy card holders 24% if they are getting only 16%.
Possibly there will be a corresponding markup in the airfares on Traveledge

or be ready for further devaluation for M4B ..

 

[raviemailid]

I think the prices on Smartbuy are not always higher than market. There have been times when Smartbuy has been slightly lower. You can use coupons and that hurts the most. 70% is fairly acceptable number and I have more than 1L points there which I keep recycling.

The fuss with Atlas is the headache of transferring the miles to reward partners and those reward patterns also don't have coupons as such. But then, the system of allowing to use with portal is a massive advantage which we can't overlook.

Atlas reward points are fairly good and even after the recent Atlas fiasco, I'll continue using Atlas, although I will most likely move all of my 4% RP transactions to Infinia for 3.33%.

 

[raviemailid]

Adding Axis Club Vistara Infinite credit card to the portfolio. Could not resist the free business class tkt and Gold status of ClubVistara. Atlas usage has gone down 90%. I’ll start using ClubVistara card selectively to touch 100000 spend to get bonus points and hopefully renew the Gold status. If can’t renew the gold status, will cancel it. The card looks and feel very cheap though. Not something that’ll make eyes roll.

I am also adding HSBC premier banking Salary account. The debit card gives 5% cash back. I need to rework my spend to redistribute after Atlas fiasco of March.

 

[BVCBVC is verified member.]

Adding Axis Club Vistara Infinite credit card to the portfolio. Could not resist the free business class tkt and Gold status of ClubVistara. Atlas usage has gone down 90%. I’ll start using ClubVistara card selectively to touch 100000 spend to get bonus points and hopefully renew the Gold status. If can’t renew the gold status, will cancel it. The card looks and feel very cheap though. Not something that’ll make eyes roll.

I am also adding HSBC premier banking Salary account. The debit card gives 5% cash back. I need to rework my spend to redistribute after Atlas fiasco of March.

View attachment 61848View attachment 61849

Vistara Infinite was gem till the devaluation happened. Everyone loved the card for Gold status and Business class tickets on milestones achieved. But Gold status has been removed and milestone spends are restricted removing utilities and Insurance. So enjoy it for 1 year and till the merger happens.

 

[raviemailid]

So enjoy it for 1 year and till the merger happens.

Exactly what the plan is. Would they give me another business class tkt next year when I pay for renewal? If my usage allows me to keep Gold status, card stays, if not, the card goes.

I'll do the 1L transaction to get the 3000 normal and 10,000 bonus points. 13K points mean two economy flights. This was the math that made me take the jump.

Quick Question - When will it show Gold in the CV login? I just did and found its still shows base.

 

[BVCBVC is verified member.]

Exactly what the plan is. Would they give me another business class tkt next year when I pay for renewal? If my usage allows me to keep Gold status, card stays, if not, the card goes.

I'll do the 1L transaction to get the 3000 normal and 10,000 bonus points. 13K points mean two economy flights. This was the math that made me take the jump.

Yes Business class ticket for the fees paid is still the only perk you get on renewal. Please note that there are only 2 award business seats on the any flight across any domestic sector vistara flies.

 

[drsel]

Yes Business class ticket for the fees paid is still the only perk you get on renewal. Please note that there are only 2 award business seats on the any flight across any domestic sector vistara flies.

Many are complaining that it is very difficult to get the route sector date and time of your choice

 

[raviemailid]

it is very difficult to get the route sector date and time of your choice

I'd believe it to be that way. I just need 1 ticket in the whole year, I am sure I'll be able to figure it out.

 

[BVCBVC is verified member.]

Many are complaining that it is very difficult to get the route sector date and time of your choice

The problem with Vistara membership is from beginning they have 2 Business Class + 6PE + 6Economy award tickets on all flights they operate domestically. But loyalty programs in partnership with many banks at multiple price points and members onboarding was huge. I remember one person on forum was saying there were around 10 people boarding with Gold status on one flight.

For example I have around 25K CV points, 3 PE tickets , 2 upgrade vouchers lying idle and I am not able to get ticket for next month on Delhi-Chennai sector and Mumbai Chennai sector.

 

[drsel]

The problem with Vistara membership is from beginning they have 2 Business Class + 6PE + 6Economy award tickets on all flights they operate domestically. But loyalty programs in partnership with many banks at multiple price points and members onboarding was huge. I remember one person on forum was saying there were around 10 people boarding with Gold status on one flight.

For example I have around 25K CV points, 3 PE tickets , 2 upgrade vouchers lying idle and I am not able to get ticket for next month on Delhi-Chennai sector and Mumbai Chennai sector.

Thank you sir you proved it
there is no point in taking vistara cards

 

[raviemailid]

I am not able to get ticket for next month on Delhi-Chennai sector and Mumbai Chennai sector.

Thank you for sharing. From your experience, it looks unlikely that I'll renew it.

Let me see how the experience goes for me. Do the CV points earned on non-flight expenses count against Gold status point?

 

[BVCBVC is verified member.]

Thank you for sharing. From your experience, it looks unlikely that I'll renew it.

Let me see how the experience goes for me. Do the CV points earned on non-flight expenses count against Gold status point?

No.. they have mentioned that 15000 Tier points. CV and Tier points are different.