PMS service experience

[Deleted member 11974]

Checked Marcellus PMS return and it looks really bad compared to index fund.Also they show you the numbers based on the first person who joined PMS.So if you join in late your return might not match with what PMS is showing.In Mutualfund there is NAV so it helps easy to get the return value.

marcellus hasnt beaten the index this year i beleive otherwise
it has performed well in 2021-2023

 

[george99]

I attended the ICICI PIPE strategy PMS seminar because one of my friends is a wealth customer of ICICI and had invested in this PMS. The seminar was held at the Taj Hotel, where Fund Manager Anand Shah explained his investment strategy. I believe he follows a value investing approach. Given that I am not well-versed in stocks and primarily involved in crypto, I didn't grasp much of the content. According to my friend, ICICI PIPE has proven to be good, offering a return of around 51% in the last year. However, it's essential to note that for every trade the PMS executes, fees are incurred,there are lots of other fees. Unlike mutual funds, where the return is net of fees, in PMS, the stated 51% return is on paper, and the actual return is less due to the associated fees. On the other hand, my friend suggested that investing in a Midcap ETF yields a similar return with lower fees.I am not an expert in stock market,this is just my opinion about PMS.

 

[Deleted member 11974]

yes pms aif hedge fund take 2-4% management fees and 10-30% of the profitrs

 

[george99]

yes pms aif hedge fund take 2-4% management fees and 10-30% of the profitrs

Ok i also have read that PMS which takes higher profit sharing and less management fees is better than higher management fees and less profit sharing.Because fund manager have to perform well to get good profit sharing.Next point is lower the AUM better will be the PMS performance.After certain point with high AUM the PMS can't get you the level of return which you got in initial years.So the PMS which stops accepting funds after certain year is the best.Example is The Medallion fund from Renaissance technologies,they don't take funds anymore also they have higher profit sharing.So finding such good PMS is difficult task.

 

[harshit_agrawal]

First of all for any PMS, min ticket size is 50L and finding a good PMS is very hard. I found one named "First Global" but not able to decide whether to go ahead or not with it.

 

[harshit_agrawal]

I attended the ICICI PIPE strategy PMS seminar because one of my friends is a wealth customer of ICICI and had invested in this PMS. The seminar was held at the Taj Hotel, where Fund Manager Anand Shah explained his investment strategy. I believe he follows a value investing approach. Given that I am not well-versed in stocks and primarily involved in crypto, I didn't grasp much of the content. According to my friend, ICICI PIPE has proven to be good, offering a return of around 51% in the last year. However, it's essential to note that for every trade the PMS executes, fees are incurred,there are lots of other fees. Unlike mutual funds, where the return is net of fees, in PMS, the stated 51% return is on paper, and the actual return is less due to the associated fees. On the other hand, my friend suggested that investing in a Midcap ETF yields a similar return with lower fees.I am not an expert in stock market,this is just my opinion about PMS.

Can you ask what was the return after deducting all fees?

 

[george99]

Can you ask what was the return after deducting all fees?

will ask but i don't expect he gonna give real % return lol.People have tendency to show that their investment is beating the market index.Let's see,if i get the information i will definitely post in this thread.Actually he isn't my friend,he is one of my closest relatives friend.I kept it short using the word friend here haha.

 

[j_s]

50L is the minimum now after the amendments made by SEBI. 25L was the earlier threshold.

For anyone with lower ticket size, simply follow index ETF investing but you will compromise on alpha. Then again, alpha isn't guaranteed in any other method either. It's just a marketing thing mostly until and unless alpha is actually delivered.

Any credible mutual fund distributor or a sub-broker would be able to give insights.

 

[harshit_agrawal]

will ask but i don't expect he gonna give real % return lol.People have tendency to show that their investment is beating the market index.Let's see,if i get the information i will definitely post in this thread.Actually he isn't my friend,he is one of my closest relatives friend.I kept it short using the word friend here haha.

Yeah, absolutely right. But if you get the info then pls let us know.

 

[Deleted member 11974]

Ok i also have read that PMS which takes higher profit sharing and less management fees is better than higher management fees and less profit sharing.Because fund manager have to perform well to get good profit sharing.Next point is lower the AUM better will be the PMS performance.After certain point with high AUM the PMS can't get you the level of return which you got in initial years.So the PMS which stops accepting funds after certain year is the best.Example is The Medallion fund from Renaissance technologies,they don't take funds anymore also they have higher profit sharing.So finding such good PMS is difficult task.

the industry players have almost the same pricing
a few basis points here and there
and as for the medallion fund it has a much bigger ticket size to entry and is not available in India i believe

 

[george99]

50L is the minimum now after the amendments made by SEBI. 25L was the earlier threshold.

For anyone with lower ticket size, simply follow index ETF investing but you will compromise on alpha. Then again, alpha isn't guaranteed in any other method either. It's just a marketing thing mostly until and unless alpha is actually delivered.

Any credible mutual fund distributor or a sub-broker would be able to give insights.

Suppose i want to invest 50L lumpsum in midcap ETF,how do i do it?Should i be buying ICICI Prudential Midcap ETF 150 stocks?Because i don't think there is enough liquidity for me to buy the ETF with less slippage.Also am i able to cash out easily suppose my corpus becomes 10Cr in next 30 years?Also is there any chances that ICICI may stop this ETF somewhere after few years down the line?So if they stop this ETF how do i get my money back?

 

[j_s]

First of all for any PMS, min ticket size is 50L and finding a good PMS is very hard. I found one named "First Global" but not able to decide whether to go ahead or not with it.

Do look into the legal history of First Global though. Just due diligence.

 

[Deleted member 11974]

50L is the minimum now after the amendments made by SEBI. 25L was the earlier threshold.

For anyone with lower ticket size, simply follow index ETF investing but you will compromise on alpha. Then again, alpha isn't guaranteed in any other method either. It's just a marketing thing mostly until and unless alpha is actually delivered.

Any credible mutual fund distributor or a sub-broker would be able to give insights.

anybody with a ticketr size of 25 lakhs who has 0 knowledge of the market should either mirro the nifty 50 mutual fund or nifty 50 equal weight mutual fund
you will end up generating higher returns than the fund in the long run

 

[Deleted member 11974]

Suppose i want to invest 50L lumpsum in midcap ETF,how do i do it?Should i be buying ICICI Prudential Midcap ETF 150 stocks?Because i don't think there is enough liquidity for me to buy the ETF with less slippage.Also am i able to cash out easily suppose my corpus becomes 10Cr in next 30 years?Also is there any chances that ICICI may stop this ETF somewhere after few years down the line?So if they stop this ETF how do i get my money back?

etfs are highly liquid so slippage shouldnt be an issue
if it is go for order slicing

and apply the same analogy while selling

and if icici stops the etf
they will intimate you before hand

 

[Deleted member 9785]

arey MF le lo direct. kyu fund manager ko ameer bana rahe ho pms ke

 

[blacktiger]

or for a peace of mind just do mirroring by copying top performing mutual funds
in the long run you will end up with 18-20% xirr as you dont pay any expense ratio

is there someway to track what fund changes in MF.?

 

[george99]

etfs are highly liquid so slippage shouldnt be an issue
if it is go for order slicing

and apply the same analogy while selling

and if icici stops the etf
they will intimate you before hand

Ok got it,thanks alot for the information.
Also for small cap,ETF or Index fund is better or actively managed Mutual fund is better?

 

[harshit_agrawal]

Do look into the legal history of First Global though. Just due diligence.

Can you suggest some? I think you are from this industry only.

 

[Shubham Yadav]

Following this threads

+1

 

[Deleted member 11974]

arey MF le lo direct. kyu fund manager ko ameer bana rahe ho pms ke

Are you komedy me ?