PMS service experience

[Deleted member 11974]

25% delta over Index? Thats way too much to sustain for any PMS. Any examples?

OBVIOUSLY SUCH DELTA IS MADE IN EXTREME BULL MARKETS AND WHERE STOCKS ARE DOUBLING IN A MONTH IT IS EASY TO MAKE DELTA

 

[AZ7]

I have been approached by my bank appointed RM to invest in PMS. He gave me a few options out of which I liked one of the funds. My concern is around the fee structure

- 2.5% flat fee p.a
- 15 bps (this fee seems to be monthly in nature to me as per application document, not sure and have asked RM to confirm on mail) = 1.8%
- GST of 18%
This takes the total to 5.07% fee annually which looks extremely high

Has anyone invested in ICICI PMS, can you confirm if this fee calculation looks right

 

[AZ7]

I attended the ICICI PIPE strategy PMS seminar because one of my friends is a wealth customer of ICICI and had invested in this PMS. The seminar was held at the Taj Hotel, where Fund Manager Anand Shah explained his investment strategy. I believe he follows a value investing approach. Given that I am not well-versed in stocks and primarily involved in crypto, I didn't grasp much of the content. According to my friend, ICICI PIPE has proven to be good, offering a return of around 51% in the last year. However, it's essential to note that for every trade the PMS executes, fees are incurred,there are lots of other fees. Unlike mutual funds, where the return is net of fees, in PMS, the stated 51% return is on paper, and the actual return is less due to the associated fees. On the other hand, my friend suggested that investing in a Midcap ETF yields a similar return with lower fees.I am not an expert in stock market,this is just my opinion about PMS.

the return shown for PMS is gross of fee? PIPE PMS is being suggested to me as well but RM was saying returns shown are net of fee

 

[Deleted member 11974]

I have been approached by my bank appointed RM to invest in PMS. He gave me a few options out of which I liked one of the funds. My concern is around the fee structure

- 2.5% flat fee p.a
- 15 bps (this fee seems to be monthly in nature to me as per application document, not sure and have asked RM to confirm on mail) = 1.8%
- GST of 18%
This takes the total to 5.07% fee annually which looks extremely high

Has anyone invested in ICICI PMS, can you confirm if this fee calculation looks right

Don't go with bank based pms

 

[AZ7]

Don't go with bank based pms

can you elaborate on this, the PMS being suggested does not belong to my bank's fund house.

there were suggestions from non banking pms as well like abakkus and carnelian but we preferred ICICI

 

[george99]

the return shown for PMS is gross of fee? PIPE PMS is being suggested to me as well but RM was saying returns shown are net of fee

i don't know if it includes fees but my uncle is happy about the returns they are giving.

 

[Deleted member 11974]

can you elaborate on this, the PMS being suggested does not belong to my bank's fund house.

there were suggestions from non banking pms as well like abakkus and carnelian but we preferred ICICI

abbakkus
capital mind and marcellus have had decent returns in the past.
they usually have a 2 20 fee structure which is better than banks

 

[george99]

abbakkus
capital mind and marcellus have had decent returns in the past.
they usually have a 2 20 fee structure which is better than banks

Marcellus had bad performance i guess

 

[Deleted member 11974]

yes it is currently going through a bad phase so will every other pms fund when the managers view doesn't align with the market

 

[george99]

yes it is currently going through a bad phase so will every other pms fund when the managers view doesn't align with the market

hmm,i think for large cap it's better to buy index and for mid cap and small cap may be PMS or Mutual funds

 

[Deleted member 11974]

index funds havent generated alpha to the tune what pms and probably mfs have generated
but again do your own due diligence

 

[george99]

index funds havent generated alpha to the tune what pms and probably mfs have generated
but again do your own due diligence

Warren Buffet placed bet in 2008 that 80% of Hedge fund can't beat index.And he won a million dollar as hedge funds couldn't beat index.

 

[Deleted member 11974]

Warren Buffet placed bet in 2008 that 80% of Hedge fund can't beat index.And he won a million dollar as hedge funds couldn't beat index.

check rennaissance technologies 30 years annualised returns vs sp 500
citadel hrt jane street all beat the index by miles otherwise they wouldne be running such a profitable busines

 

[george99]

check rennaissance technologies 30 years annualised returns vs sp 500
citadel hrt jane street all beat the index by miles otherwise they wouldne be running such a profitable busines

Yeah thats's what 80% of those fail and picking up these particular Hedge funds are like picking up a lottery,Renaissance Medallion allowed investors to come in only between 1988 to 1993,since then they don't take any new investors.

 

[Deleted member 11974]

so find pms fund managers whose market outlook aligns with yours and invest in them

 

[CC-Muncher]

Smallcase can be another option if u can spare some time urself.

Else something like marketmojo, univest can be also worth

 

[devine_mortal]

I had invested in ASK PMS which had been a disaster for the last 1.5-2 years. When the benchmark was giving 18% returns, ASK was at 2-3%. So basically, missed the golden period of last year's where many mutual funds returned an average 35-40%.

I heard similar stories about other PMS's. Never found their high fee to be worth it.

My opinion.. invest in Mutual funds and see them outperform most of these PMS's.

 

[devine_mortal]

I don't believe PMS are for people whose entire net-worth is going to sit in hands of a Fund Manager
You will be better off with Index Investing as atleast you can attribute any changes to the overall market sentiment and not a Fund manager's strategy

There is a reason why PMS and AIF are generally targeted towards the wealthy.
You need to have a certain net-worth where you can feel comfortable with letting someone else deciding the financial decisions for a part of your net-worth and freeing the time for you to focus on other things.

Yeap, learned it the hard way. But then, thought these financial advisors in big banks were giving good advice. I was naive.

Don't fall for their recommendations guys. Do what are comfortable with and don't completely reply on them.

 

[Pravas]

My advice is to learn stock market and DYI. It's not that difficult once you follow the macro economics and smart money. You may need to invest some time in but it's worth it. Also it is a mental game.

If you don't have time for this, do index investing via MF but this won't work in the future as index investing goes mainstream, operators will find a way to profit themselves from index by controlling it.

If you still need to go to a PMS check out some local PMS in your city who are small and have good references. The bigger ones are not agile as they can't rotate stocks easily, hence will mostly follow the MFs in return and will have bigger expense ratio.

 

[Wealth is my birth right!]

I have been approached by my bank appointed RM to invest in PMS. He gave me a few options out of which I liked one of the funds. My concern is around the fee structure

- 2.5% flat fee p.a
- 15 bps (this fee seems to be monthly in nature to me as per application document, not sure and have asked RM to confirm on mail) = 1.8%
- GST of 18%
This takes the total to 5.07% fee annually which looks extremely high

Has anyone invested in ICICI PMS, can you confirm if this fee calculation looks right

On top of this they have exit load right if withdraw pms before 3 years?