Axis Bank May Issue Legal Notices for Unsettled Negative Reward Points Balances

[2025]

The arugment that genuine users were affected holds no water. From Mint's reporting, Axis bank only sent the emails to 72 customers, likely only the ones leeching the system. This is nothing but fraud from these users.

Only 72 customers! Main nehi manta.They might be testing public outrage. More emails to come soon.

Otherwise, given the reach of Magnus during those times, it appears like they are hiding some people, some really big fishes (highly likely).

For 72 people estimated value would be roughly around 10-20 Crore, considering the available 4 samples. May be they have started with 5L+ negative values, just a guess.

 

[skyroamer]

As said before, I find both Axis (their old guards) and Exploiters (old customers) are wrong in this case. Both should pay reasonable price. Both should be penalized.

1. Exploiting old customers should pay back as per avg value of reward points applicable at that time. They should get a time window (e.g., 3 months).

2. Axis should find their internal culprit (higher level officials, related technical team, etc. who let this happen... charge them too).

No point making argument who is 99% and who is 1% fault. Both are at fault. Money recovery should be done from both. No t&c apply when it comes under fraudulent activities.

thats where the next question comes in, that under which laws/ rules/ acts/sections can the customer be charged ? are there any RBI , consumer, GOI, BNS laws etc for such incidents ? if yes, can anyone state those and their quantum as well ? some people want to drag the alleged fraudsters to the court which is fine however , in a court of law one cannot charge a person as guilty just by simple wishful statements . it has to be supported by relevant sections under exisiting laws . so can anyone mention those laws/sections plz ?

 

[ash_m]

Pretty sure those 72 customers are the ones who defrauded points worth over lakhs of rupees. They are nothing but fraudsters and should 100% be dragged to the courts.

Axis is a bank which truly doesn't deserve any appreciation for the kind of stuff they do, but way too many people here are supporting those fraudsters in the name of bashing axis. Axis is 100% right in sending them these emails and should definitely take this matter up in courts.

No one is supporting the fraudsters on this thread. Holding one entity responsible for allowing such lapses to happen and their irresponsible business is not equivalent to supporting the other.

The point of criticism around the email is that the MITC clause that they've conveniently used for monetary valuation did not exist when these accounts were closed (or at least for most of them I guess if they intentionally did it). On top of that, as per the bank's own terms recovery is applicable if the card account had -ve points at the time of closure. If the accounts have already been closed and no dues certificates were issued, Axis has no business claiming recovery for their own fault. This argument is not to justify anyone who has intentionally exploited these loopholes. Axis needs to prove them for fraud in court and make them pay or find some settlement. But, if Axis is allowed to apply MITC retroactively (which is certainly not legal) and bully these "likely" guilty people into submission, it sets an example for them & other banks to do the same with any customer and walk away. We're anyway talking about a notorious bank that has a history of engaging in shady activities.

 

[skyroamer]

The arugment that genuine users were affected holds no water. From Mint's reporting, Axis bank only sent the emails to 72 customers, likely only the ones leeching the system. This is nothing but fraud from these users.

No one is supporting the fraudsters on this thread. Holding one entity responsible for allowing such lapses to happen and their irresponsible business is not equivalent to supporting the other.

The point of criticism around the email is that the MITC clause that they've conveniently used for monetary valuation did not exist when these accounts were closed (or at least for most of them I guess if they intentionally did it). On top of that, as per the bank's own terms recovery is applicable if the card account had -ve points at the time of closure. If the accounts have already been closed and no dues certificates were issued, Axis has no business claiming recovery for their own fault. This argument is not to justify anyone who has intentionally exploited these loopholes. Axis needs to prove them for fraud in court and make them pay or find some settlement. But, if Axis is allowed to apply MITC retroactively (which is certainly not legal) and bully these "likely" guilty people into submission, it sets an example for them & other banks to do the same with any customer and walk away. We're anyway talking about a notorious bank that has a history of engaging in shady activities.

No one is supporting the fraudsters on this thread. Holding one entity responsible for allowing such lapses to happen and their irresponsible business is not equivalent to supporting the other.

The point of criticism around the email is that the MITC clause that they've conveniently used for monetary valuation did not exist when these accounts were closed (or at least for most of them I guess if they intentionally did it). On top of that, as per the bank's own terms recovery is applicable if the card account had -ve points at the time of closure. If the accounts have already been closed and no dues certificates were issued, Axis has no business claiming recovery for their own fault. This argument is not to justify anyone who has intentionally exploited these loopholes. Axis needs to prove them for fraud in court and make them pay or find some settlement. But, if Axis is allowed to apply MITC retroactively (which is certainly not legal) and bully these "likely" guilty people into submission, it sets an example for them & other banks to do the same with any customer and walk away. We're anyway talking about a notorious bank that has a history of engaging in shady activities.

exactly the point, that if NOC was issued for some of those future alleged "fraud" customers then on the basis of which laws can the banks reclaim their assets ? also what constitutes a limit of fraud ? what if there are instances of honest mistakes where some customers are unaware of reward points accrued by them which are supposedly invalid in the eyes of bank and the customer uses them and gets reprimanded by the banks later on ? such technical glicthes can happen in the future as well right ? today it is axis tomorrow it might be some other bank ? so which are the defined laws which addresses these things ?

 

[chasni]

No one is supporting the fraudsters on this thread. Holding one entity responsible for allowing such lapses to happen and their irresponsible business is not equivalent to supporting the other.

The point of criticism around the email is that the MITC clause that they've conveniently used for monetary valuation did not exist when these accounts were closed (or at least for most of them I guess if they intentionally did it). On top of that, as per the bank's own terms recovery is applicable if the card account had -ve points at the time of closure. If the accounts have already been closed and no dues certificates were issued, Axis has no business claiming recovery for their own fault. This argument is not to justify anyone who has intentionally exploited these loopholes. Axis needs to prove them for fraud in court and make them pay or find some settlement. But, if Axis is allowed to apply MITC retroactively (which is certainly not legal) and bully these "likely" guilty people into submission, it sets an example for them & other banks to do the same with any customer and walk away. We're anyway talking about a notorious bank that has a history of engaging in shady activities.

exactly the point, that if NOC was issued for some of those future alleged "fraud" customers then on the basis of which laws can the banks reclaim their assets ? also what constitutes a limit of fraud ? what if there are instances of honest mistakes where some customers are unaware of reward points accrued by them which are supposedly invalid in the eyes of bank and the customer uses them and gets reprimanded by the banks later on ? such technical glicthes can happen in the future as well right ? today it is axis tomorrow it might be some other bank ? so which are the defined laws which addresses these things ?

Exactly. This is the main point.

But somehow most people here are triggering their morality gene and misinterpreting the main point.

 

[RichieRich]

Tum sab log lad kyun rahe ho ? Jisko jo theek lagta woh wahi karega... Chill

 

[2025]

thats where the next question comes in, that under which laws/ rules/ acts/sections can the customer be charged ? are there any RBI , consumer, GOI, BNS laws etc for such incidents ? if yes, can anyone state those and their quantum as well ? some people want to drag the alleged fraudsters to the court which is fine however , in a court of law one cannot charge a person as guilty just by simple wishful statements . it has to be supported by relevant sections under exisiting laws . so can anyone mention those laws/sections plz ?

For me this is not a fraud till the ex-customers who exploited the glitch deny payments after looking at the detailed revised statement of rewards (rather corrected statement and calculation).

They deserve to be given fair chance for payment, or escalate if something wrong in the revised statement calculation.

But hiding behind t&c won't save. Because it itself question their own intention.

I reiterate, this is not fraud yet. But will become, if not addressed suitably.

 

[malavkarkar]

Exactly. This is the main point.

But somehow most people here are triggering their morality gene and misinterpreting the main point.

Sad to see so many people defending a billion dollar corporation; the same corporation that won't think twice before another round of devaluation, stripping customers of their hard earned money. I wonder where this morality gene goes at times like that.

 

[Arkapal Sen]

@surojitlaha bhai ei karone axis khulte voye lage..puro cartoon bank

 

[rogerthat]

Something a banker friend once advised about wrong credits.

"If you receive a credit or reversal of anything from a bank that you shouldn't, like an unexplained deposit or any kind of credit including reward or loyalty points to your account, bring it to the notice of your bank. Because banks are tightly audited for every single paisa, and any minutest discrepancy will be noticed, checked, investigated, traced and finally made sure it is accounted for. You might remove the money from your account immediately and close the account and run away, but you have taken something that is not yours. Even if they don't notice it right away, it is sure as death and taxes that they WILL come for it sooner or later."

That is all that has happened here. Anyone who thought that Axis would just shrug their shoulders and say "Oh no! Anyway." and would go about their daily business has clearly no idea how financial institutions work. This is a hole in the books that need to be filled unless there is an authorisation to write it off (which I believe will happen eventually).

Of course, AxShit build a too-good-to be true system that was full of holes and then threw the floodgates open to let every creep and crook into the system to let it to be abused bottom to top before someone noticed and shut the entire mess down, and is now playing the saint pretending that nothing is their fault, which is absolute bollocks as well. Axis MUST be taken to task for their shitty IT infrastructure. Like I said after the Magnus fiasco, if someone parks their 10L+30L in this bank with IT infra that seems to be as well-designed and robust as the average sand castle on a beach so they can get a credit card, then good luck to you.

Great thread, by the way. Among the best on Technofino.

 

[malavkarkar]

cartoon bank

 

[dvader]

BTW got a chance to discuss this with a HC Lawyer

Axis Bank can go after the individuals for fraud, given that they are notified and given reasonable time and opportunity to correct their actions. Fraud by definition has an extremely broad coverage and the actual outcome will be decided in court. MITC/NOC/Agreements/Contracts need not be broken to commit fraud. Axis most prob won't spend money to take a small fish to the court but courts will not look favorably at individuals who conned/got a large amount of money.

If a large amount of money is involved and the individuals don't pay it back, we might see a landmark judgment of some sort.

 

[Tamal]

In this case money write off will directly impact depositor or shareholders trust in the bank... And will encourage more such fraud in the future in the banking system for all banks.



And NOC after card closure will definitely not help any fraudster here.

I believe it's just the tip of the iceberg.. more fraud activities of various parameters are involved in the banking system nowadays which I hope will be identified and dealt with soon by the banks.

 

[chasni]

In this case money write off will directly impact depositor or shareholders trust in the bank... And will encourage more such fraud in the future in the banking system for all banks.

I doubt it will shown as write-off given that it is an old matter. It would have already been part of their previous annual report as "Rewards expenses" or something. Not a CA so don't know the right term.

 

[Anush]

Can someone please advice on my situation below?
I had Magnus in 2022-2024. This was closed in August 2024. From July 2024, I have Axis Burgundy DC (Converted from Citibank) and I accumulate ERs through that.
Now Axis has deducted 36 ERs. Since I already have ERs from Burgundy DC the balance is not negative.

But I am concerned about what Axis would do next. I don't care for what and why Axis gives me ERs. I blindly transfer the ERs out based on my need. If tomorrow Axis realizes that it should not have given me ERs for some transactions and rolls them back I will be in a soup if balance becomes negative.

Is there anyway I can safeguard myself from what Axis would do in the future?

Consider this scenario: I pay advanced income tax using my Burgundy DC and I get ERs. During the time of income tax filing, I realize that I have paid excess tax. This excess gets refunded to my account. What is this treated as? Can Axis roll back the ERs?

 

[chasni]

Can someone please advice on my situation below?
I had Magnus in 2022-2024. This was closed in August 2024. From July 2024, I have Axis Burgundy DC (Converted from Citibank) and I accumulate ERs through that.
Now Axis has deducted 36 ERs. Since I already have ERs from Burgundy DC the balance is not negative.

But I am concerned about what Axis would do next. I don't care for what and why Axis gives me ERs. I blindly transfer the ERs out based on my need. If tomorrow Axis realizes that it should not have given me ERs for some transactions and rolls them back I will be in a soup if balance becomes negative.

Is there anyway I can safeguard myself from what Axis would do in the future?

Consider this scenario: I pay advanced income tax using my Burgundy DC and I get ERs. During the time of income tax filing, I realize that I have paid excess tax. This excess gets refunded to my account. What is this treated as? Can Axis roll back the ERs?

Why are you worried about What-if scenarios? If you didn't do anything in excessive then you will be fine. Nothing to worry.

Tip: If you're a person who gets worried with small little things then you shouldn't take risks, especially for reward points. Mental peace is worth more than any reward point.

 

[lucifer69]

Just discussed with my cousin who worked under Solicitor general few years back in SC and comes from a family of lawyers.

Short Answer: You're liable to pay and Axis holds the ball legally and ruin you. You can raise a case but he prepared for harrasment and sure shot defeat.
------------------

Now, coming back to it without even the updated MITC. They can go for claim using the laws for fraud [ there is not timeline for recovering fraud money. You can basically recover even after 60 years ].

But, Axis played more safe by updating the MITC by indirectly giving you an idea of what's about to come but opportunity to be prepared. Afterwards, now they're giving you time and opportunity to pay back. "Fraud" has an extremely broad coverage and the actual outcome will be decided in court. Axis is famous for going after these exploiters in past. They've team of lawyers and a huge capital to infuse into it and taking the cases. MITC/NOC/Agreements/Contracts need not be broken to commit fraud. They will not go for small fishes [ will present a bad image as there are genuine users as well who had cancelled or refunded product ] but the main thing is it will give them a upper hand in court that they are going for big fishes, it will be easy for them prove the big fishes as outright fraud and will have a soft backing as they are letting go a major chunk of users [ 100rs of amount will still be counted as a case ] which they'll let go but can present as part of record.

my additional statement to him: Another big thing which will be used as persons having points worth lakhs but not enough spend statements to back those up [which is obvious] in that case, the onus will be on you to prove the same which is impossible again. Now, as you've spend let's say 70Lakh while having spend of 10Lakhs. Those 60L can be termed as fraud money lent. They won't hesitate to bring IT into the picture where even your ITRs will not match the spends required to generate those same and by the time you'll already be under the umbrella of fraud.

Answer was: Bold of you to assume, someone will be able to withstand for that long. Considering the legal team of Axis, it'll be shut so soon as they have been preparing for this for a long time [ he mentioned after mitc update]

Lastly, I have asked for personal thought if he is the judge: Fraud detected, abuse of system, considering laws it'll be worse than paying the amount. Better ask for time.


This all is personal conversation and have just thought to share.

thats where the next question comes in, that under which laws/ rules/ acts/sections can the customer be charged ? are there any RBI , consumer, GOI, BNS laws etc for such incidents ? if yes, can anyone state those and their quantum as well ? some people want to drag the alleged fraudsters to the court which is fine however , in a court of law one cannot charge a person as guilty just by simple wishful statements . it has to be supported by relevant sections under exisiting laws . so can anyone mention those laws/sections plz ?

 

[rogerthat]

Just discussed with my cousin who worked under Solicitor general few years back in SC and comes from a family of lawyers.

Short Answer: You're liable to pay and Axis holds the ball legally and ruin you. You can raise a case but he prepared for harrasment and sure shot defeat.
------------------

Now, coming back to it without even the updated MITC. They can go for claim using the laws for fraud [ there is not timeline for recovering fraud money. You can basically recover even after 60 years ].

But, Axis played more safe by updating the MITC by indirectly giving you an idea of what's about to come but opportunity to be prepared. Afterwards, now they're giving you time and opportunity to pay back. "Fraud" has an extremely broad coverage and the actual outcome will be decided in court. Axis is famous for going after these exploiters in past. They've team of lawyers and a huge capital to infuse into it and taking the cases. MITC/NOC/Agreements/Contracts need not be broken to commit fraud. They will not go for small fishes [ will present a bad image as there are genuine users as well who had cancelled or refunded product ] but the main thing is it will give them a upper hand in court that they are going for big fishes, it will be easy for them prove the big fishes as outright fraud and will have a soft backing as they are letting go a major chunk of users [ 100rs of amount will still be counted as a case ] which they'll let go but can present as part of record.

my additional statement to him: Another big thing which will be used as persons having points worth lakhs but not enough spend statements to back those up [which is obvious] in that case, the onus will be on you to prove the same which is impossible again. Now, as you've spend let's say 70Lakh while having spend of 10Lakhs. Those 60L can be termed as fraud money lent. They won't hesitate to bring IT into the picture where even your ITRs will not match the spends required to generate those same and by the time you'll already be under the umbrella of fraud.

Answer was: Bold of you to assume, someone will be able to withstand for that long. Considering the legal team of Axis, it'll be shut so soon as they have been preparing for this for a long time [ he mentioned after mitc update]

Lastly, I have asked for personal thought if he is the judge: Fraud detected, abuse of system, considering laws it'll be worse than paying the amount. Better ask for time.


This all is personal conversation and have just thought to share.

Yes, this is more or less what I was told about this case too. Be it cash or reward points, any credit you obtain through fraud/manipulation/exploitation of loopholes must be paid back else they will come to you no matter how long it takes.

However, no one will take Axis to task for their subpar IT infrastructure. This is because basically laws are first to protect the bank and not the consumers.

 

[lucifer69]

Yes, this is more or less what I was told about this case too. Be it cash or reward points, any credit you obtain through fraud/manipulation/exploitation of loopholes must be paid back else they will come to you no matter how long it takes.

However, no one will take Axis to task for their subpar IT infrastructure. This is because basically laws are first to protect the bank and not the consumers.

Let me correct and it will still hold true "protect the bank and not the consumers" [protect the strong and not the weak]. Jk

I'm planning to ping up some friends in axis to get some data on fired employees in past year and a half. I'm sure the team would've already paid the price.

Also, Yes. "Be it cash or reward points, any credit you obtain through fraud/manipulation/exploitation of loopholes must be paid" and also another user mentioned as well [ imtnot sure if it's you above.

I had a conversation with uncle who's in bank's IT. He mentioned consider it as false credit in layman's language and banks recover easy. He mentioned, that on numerous occasions his bank credited multiple people with lakhs but recovered on their own. Those who used were contacted and got money recovered. They've let small amounts go as well but that's negligible times. [ Public sector bank ]

 

[panchabhut]

There is a legal term Mens rea. Mens rea refers to criminal intent. The literal translation from Latin is " guilty mind ." A few hundred or thousand points from 1 or 2 or even 3 cancellations may be defended as unintentional. But when the amount runs into lakhs and from multiple repeated such transactions, it would be easy for the bank to prove Mens rea on part of the customer.