Axis Bank May Issue Legal Notices for Unsettled Negative Reward Points Balances

[aditya128]

There are two different things -

1. People who earned from cancellation activity on Ecom sites. It clear intention of Fraud

2. Payment of CC bills from portal through eligible MCCs. Irrespective of which bill you are paying, bank get MDR as per MCC so if they are giving you rewards points against eligible MCCs then they are not at loss at least as per their business strategy.


People falling under 1 have to worry. For genuine transactions bank has to face brunt and it's not customer issue at all. 2nd category People doesn't need to worry as bank clearly mention in T&Cs then MCC get assigned by Acquiring banks and not card issuers. And they are earning from respective MCCs

 

[aaa1]

Have used Magnus and Reserve as intended with genuine spends over 60 lakhs over past 2 years. Haven't had any issue with ER. Used travel edge, foreign spends, gyftr, grabdeals etc.

No issue with ER so far. Mostly people who have abused are facing issue. And they're the one against Axis implementing it.

 

[TechnoFinoTechnoFino is verified member.]

If you didn't misuse then you are not even a fish.

If you have ever used your card in violation of the card issuer's MITC, then you’re a fish… Personal credit cards are not meant for purchasing anything on behalf of your friends, yet many of us share our cards with them. This is just one example—I can guarantee that 99.99% of people don’t strictly follow the MITC.

I just wished instead of bashing Axis (which is a TF Community timepass of sorts) you would have been a little empathetic to the honest people who keep the bank and it's systems running.

What do you think I’m doing? I’m questioning Axis Bank—why didn’t they fix the issue at the earliest? I understand that some loopholes or glitches take time to fix, but this "order and cancel" glitch is so basic that it’s hard to believe Axis was unaware of it.

And after seeing some numbers on social media, where some people managed to earn 1 crore reward points using this trick—doesn’t Axis Bank conduct annual audits?

All these issues are hurting genuine customers. I hold Axis Bank 99% accountable for this mess-up.

 

[Tamal]

The PAN card of all the axis bank abuser must be disclosed to other financial institutions also for further investigation... Infact special provision may be made to include the notice served to the potential fraud axis abuser into the credit bureau reports so that other financial institutions underwriter may also count past history before granting any further credit.... It's just a suggestion for discouraging further abuse to the banking system.

 

[plastikman]

The PAN card of all the axis bank abuser must be disclosed to other financial institutions also for further investigation... Infact special provision may be made to include the notice served to the potential fraud axis abuser into the credit bureau reports so that other financial institutions underwriter may also count past history before granting any further credit.... It's just a suggestion for discouraging further abuse to the banking system.

In that case also axis should be embargoed like Kotak was for the past 1 year. They cannot be so lax with handling money.

 

[ash_m]

The PAN card of all the axis bank abuser must be disclosed to other financial institutions also for further investigation... Infact special provision may be made to include the notice served to the potential fraud axis abuser into the credit bureau reports so that other financial institutions underwriter may also count past history before granting any further credit.... It's just a suggestion for discouraging further abuse to the banking system.

This is laughable. If we go around making such special provisions to teach them a lesson, by the same logic I doubt you'd be left with any bank in India. Take Axis for example, first they removed the benefits of one of their premium cards one by one. But they still continued to charge the same amount despite reduced benefits. And then they introduced another card with those removed benefits, with more than 100% increase in the fees.

Isn't this an abuse of the banking system in broad daylight?

The argument that it is a result of consumers who abuse the banking system is flawed. If such banks were really trying to run their business while upholding any ethical value, they would provide alternatives, such as continue with the card at lower fees. It's a business right, if the bank can no longer provide those benefits I'm sure a customer would understand. If not, you have a choice whether you want to continue or not.

 

[aaa1]

The thread is amazing to see. You can clearly see who has abused the system and who hasn't. (Abusing doesn't mean receiving notice, all abusers might have not got it. They'll just be against setting this precedence.)


Genuine spenders just want it to last as long as possible. Its is 100% the abusers who result in devaluation. Not some twitter wannabees chasing following. They're to blame for all the Axis devaluation. People earning cores and tens of lakhs of points illegitimately.

Let's see where this goes (most probably nowhere), but they've got a warning shot.

 

[theXfactor]

I fail to understand why some folks are blaming only the bank. Not to favour anyone here but the fact remains…loopholes do exist even in govt. systems and it doesn’t mean that one should go ahead and exploit. People would recall, what Harshad Mehta did. He simply exploited the loopholes in the system that existed, which ofcourse were fixed later but only after the damage was done. He paid a huge price for what he did although he technically simply exploited the loopholes in our banking system.
My take is - all said and done, banks have all the rights to recover money from the folks who gamed the system big time. Clearly the folks who earned lakhs of points with Mala fide intentions must return the money.
- it’s a good move the bank as it would make people think twice before gaming the system
- several others paid for some peoples’ wrongdoings. We saw several devaluations last year and normal people bore the brunt after paying the paying the annual fees
- that said, Axis must also be penalised by RBI and taken to task (similar to HDFC) and bar them from issuing new cards until they fix their systems

 

[msankadi]

An article about this was published in mint today

Axis Bank cracks down on customers who gamed its rewards system https://www.livemint.com/money/pers...-rewards-loophole-dispute-11740739956529.html
Download mint app for latest in Business News - https://bit.ly/32XEfFE

Shocked by some of the things in the article like

Tejas Ghongadi, co-founder of The Points Code, said the bank might post the cash equivalent of the negative points balance on the credit card statements of active cardholders. But for former customers, the path forward remains unclear.

 

[callsignmaverick]

I am unaffected by this, but here are my 2 cents:

1. Axis should definitely try to recover the amounts. I am not going to get into the how (that's upto them). I also hope they find out a way to blacklist these folks not only from getting Axis cards but other bank cards as well.
2. For people defending these so called abusers, go and check reddit; there are people who have accumulated and cashed out points worth Crores of rupees. Yes you read that right - Crores. Anyone who made more than 10k points this way can't claim ignorance as they were well aware that it was immoral and unethical. Another reason I am not going to defend these abusers - Genuine customers are now suffering because of these guys. Devaluations, account freezes all stem from this kind of behaviour.
3. I also hope that Axis gets punished or fined for a lax banking setup. It's partially their fault as well.

Bottomline - I hope both the abusers and Axis get punished but Axis initiating recovery proceedings is a step in the right direction.

 

[SSV]

All I can say ...
FASAK is back in full form ....
All the best guys !!!
Enjoy for the relationship you are having / had with 🪓 whether you exploited it or not ,whether it is morally right or not...

Basically, there are 4 types of guys here...
1) Guys who know that playing with fire knowing that it will hurt them one day but taking risk and hoping they will escape from it and actually escaped from it as the wind was blown in the away direction from them and took the fire away along with it luckily..
2) same as first category guys except that they actual got caught up in the fire and got really burnt and applying burnol or even taking major anti burn medication 💊 !!!
3) Guys who know all this mess and stayed away from this mess cautiously, well in advance
4) Guys who dont know all this but continued their relationship with 🪓 and got caught up in the fire and suffering from it without their own wilful fault..

My view:
The category 1 & 2 guys along with the Bank adding misery to the Category 4 guys.. Category 3 guys are already out of this dirty game anyway...

One simple thing I follow, if it is not our money dont play with the loophole , just because loophole exists.....It is simply not our money...
this is especially true for the bigger and repeated wilful exploited tranactions ... As it is not our money , be prepared to return it when sh*t hits the fan ...


So moral of the story..
Know very well about your partner in every important aspect of your life before dealing with them ie. boyfirend - girlfriend , husband- wife, friends, colleagues, banking relationships etc. etc...
Beasue life ,in my view, is nothing but " the collection of time we spend along with different people/ organisations we come across until we die" ... make it memorable.. cherish it... avoid negative people/ organisations.. enjoy your life..

On a ligther note: FASAK once more ... 😉





Note:
My current realtionship with 🪓 ...

1) SB account

• SBLBR ( ie Liberty SB account)

2) Credit Cards

• MyZone (LTF)
• Neo (LTF)
• Airtel (Paid)

As it indicates, I am strongly against maintaining any serious relationship with 🪓 from the outset given its nature of treating it’s customers… you can see this from my numerous previous posts in various threads……but that is just my personal view anyway…

 

[ash_m]

If you're new to this thread, I'd highly recommend to go through it once right from the start (given that you've some free time to spend). You can clearly see people who are the real reason behind our banking system in such mess. If you belong to the bandwagon that thinks "Hey, I have never faced any issue. And even if so many people did (from false deductions to losing their deposits), you cannot fight the big bad. So please suck it up and accept the way things are", I think you need to reconsider whether you have been a responsible consumer or not.

Genuine spenders do not want their benefits to "last as long as possible". It is not a favour from the bank. When you've paid the fees due to some benefits but they are withdrawn later with no adjustments, it is daylight cheating. And it is not "directly" because there are people who exploit the loopholes. The root cause is simply that banks are not making enough profit due to bad planning and execution. They are themselves offering bad loans and issuing credit cards to people who they should not, so that they can meet their targets. A bank employee who is under constant pressure doesn't think of how much risk this poses to an innocent depositer. Plus, the membership terms are intentionally left one sided so that it gives banks the liberty to withdraw the benefits as soon as their sales targets are met. Essentially, they want you get used to such lifestyle benefits, so that they can later charge you for the same. If you haven't known about this in your day to day life, you need to look around more closely.

No denying the argument that these people should be punished. But if you're going to let a notorious bank set the precedence at the expense of breaking their agreed upon terms with these people, it is likely that many genuine spenders will also come under the bus. A justice system is laid on the foundation that it is better to let go of 10 guilty offenders than making even one single innocent suffer. Also, not to forget that in this case, it is evident that Axis has applied the new MITC retroactively. This is not to say that Axis should not recover their losses. They definitely should, but you cannot be allowed to break the terms at your own convenience just because you're the big fish. If you do not hold the bank 99% responsible and let it slide, it sets an even darker precedence.

Lastly, all I would say is you don't want the people who have the duty to uphold the law themselves break the law to punish someone. If you allow that, sooner or later you will find yourself in total anarchy. The system will never improve, rather it will become a breeding ground for the same problems you were trying to fix in the first place.

 

[helloworld]

Well, I should use this template for SBI reward points credited during offer period and deduct reward points/charges after 3 months.

 

[malavkarkar]

If you're new to this thread, I'd highly recommend to go through it once right from the start (given that you've some free time to spend). You can clearly see people who are the real reason behind our banking system in such mess. If you belong to the bandwagon that thinks "Hey, I have never faced any issue. And even if so many people did (from false deductions to losing their deposits), you cannot fight the big bad. So please suck it up and accept the way things are", I think you need to reconsider whether you have been a responsible consumer or not.

Genuine spenders do not want their benefits to "last as long as possible". It is not a favour from the bank. When you've paid the fees due to some benefits but they are withdrawn later with no adjustments, it is daylight cheating. And it is not "directly" because there are people who exploit the loopholes. The root cause is simply that banks are not making enough profit due to bad planning and execution. They are themselves offering bad loans and issuing credit cards to people who they should not, so that they can meet their targets. A bank employee who is under constant pressure doesn't think of how much risk this poses to an innocent depositer. Plus, the membership terms are intentionally left one sided so that it gives banks the liberty to withdraw the benefits as soon as their sales targets are met. Essentially, they want you get used to such lifestyle benefits, so that they can later charge you for the same. If you haven't known about this in your day to day life, you need to look around more closely.

No denying the argument that these people should not be punished. But if you're going to let a notorious bank set the precedence at the expense of breaking their agreed upon terms with these people, it is likely that many genuine spenders will also come under the bus. A justice system is laid on the foundation that it is better to let go of 10 guilty offenders than making even one single innocent suffer. Also, not to forget that in this case, it is evident that Axis has applied the new MITC retroactively. This is not to say that Axis should not recover their losses. They definitely should, but you cannot be allowed to break the terms at your own convenience just because you're the big fish. If you do not hold the bank 99% responsible and let it slide, it sets an even darker precedence.

Lastly, all I would say is you don't want the people who have the duty to uphold the law themselves break the law to punish someone. If you allow that, sooner or later you will find yourself in total anarchy. The system will never improve, rather it will become a breeding ground for the same problems you were trying to fix in the first place.

Totally agree.

When I signed up for Magnus, the advert said "25,000 bonus points every month upon spending ₹100,000 as long as you hold the card." This was one of the benefits of the card for which you paid its fees, and it took them a few months to get rid of this.

Atlas had a reward structure where you'd be able to use benefits from next year onwards, depending on which tier you achieve in the current year. But by the time next year came, they had gotten rid of most of the benefits.

Is this what we were paying yearly fees for?

 

[aaa1]

Another simple way to look at it is, do you really want to bank with a bank who let fraudsters who stole 10s crores (maybe 100s) of worth of points get away without fighting? Also they most probably need to just go after 20% of the people who'd have gained 80% of these points.

I want a bank that takes strict legal action all the way possible against fraudsters. Axis has a very strong legal case based on laws and will most probably very easily win given. They aren't breaking any law by going after fraudsters and it's perfectly legal as explained in my previous comments. Intention to fraud can easily be proven for fraudsters which would be significant recovery. Worst case even if they lose (unlikely), it will send a message to fraudsters about not messing with Axis cause they will go all the way to recover. So loopholes would be exploited less in the future and their offerings will stay for longer.

If Axis does go after this legally, I will switch my banking to them. A bank who takes frauds seriously.

Also, talking abut other issues doesn't negate this fact. Yes there are issues but they slowly are fixing them. Esp on credit card complaints they are much better than HDFC/ICICI. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[aaa1]

Totally agree.

When I signed up for Magnus, the advert said "25,000 bonus points every month upon spending ₹100,000 as long as you hold the card." This was one of the benefits of the card for which you paid its fees, and it took them a few months to get rid of this.

Atlas had a reward structure where you'd be able to use benefits from next year onwards, depending on which tier you achieve in the current year. But by the time next year came, they had gotten rid of most of the benefits.

Is this what we were paying yearly fees for?

That's a separate real issue but unfortunately legal as per RBI norms.

But think about it, why did they have to do it? Because of these fraudsters. Banks generally plan these for 2-3 years based on expectations and set budgets. Fraudsters extracted 10x/100x more than what was budgeted which resulted in devaluation.

 

[skyroamer]

since the bank is threatening legal action on certain people are there any particular laws under the banking TnC which the customers have adhered to when they were using the card services ? also are there any laws in our banking systems which can hold the customer guilty of such occurences ? can anyone point out those laws or sections ?

 

[dexter_greycells]

If you have ever used your card in violation of the card issuer's MITC, then you’re a fish… Personal credit cards are not meant for purchasing anything on behalf of your friends, yet many of us share our cards with them. This is just one example—I can guarantee that 99.99% of people don’t strictly follow the MITC.

What do you think I’m doing? I’m questioning Axis Bank—why didn’t they fix the issue at the earliest? I understand that some loopholes or glitches take time to fix, but this "order and cancel" glitch is so basic that it’s hard to believe Axis was unaware of it.

And after seeing some numbers on social media, where some people managed to earn 1 crore reward points using this trick—doesn’t Axis Bank conduct annual audits?

All these issues are hurting genuine customers. I hold Axis Bank 99% accountable for this mess-up.

The questions you are asking will never find any answers unless Axis is dragged to a court case by one of these affected customers and Axis fights it out instead of settling. Then again, who will even bother with a court case? The ones who exploited the loophole know they don't have a case. Ones who didn't exploit haven't suffered financial losses high enough to justify the legal expenses, time and mental agony of a court case.

Talking of ones who didn't exploit, let us take an example. Someone bought a Rs 2L 75" TV and realized their local store had a better deal. Their online order had not yet been shipped. So they cancelled the order and landed up with say 8000 Airmiles (I am taking Atlas' example). They then used these 8000 Airmiles to book a flight to Singapore. Axis is basically asking for a monetary value (or twice that) of those 8000 Airmiles back. Yes, had they known that Axis will ask money for those 8000 Airmiles months later they would not have used them and used another card or website for a better or worse deal. But they did use them. It turned out to be sort of borrowed money. Is that amount worth a court case? Definitely not unless you are retired or jobless or extremely determined.

To your other point, I do fully agree that Axis just went a step too far asking for what seems to be twice the monetary value of those points / Airmiles when they don't even allow them to redeemed for cash and the MITC didn't talk about it. Axis should have taken a middle ground / compromise for the ones who didn't exploit (say those who had 1 or 2 cancellations or the points were below a certain threshold). They should have taken a haircut (i.e. a financial write-off aka loss) or asked for half of what they are asking for. A compromise where neither party feels like they won!

 

[aaa1]

since the bank is threatening legal action on certain people are there any particular laws under the banking TnC which the customers have adhered to when they were using the card services ? also are there any laws in our banking systems which can hold the customer guilty of such occurences ? can anyone point out those laws or sections ?

You can look at older comments. I've mentioned exactly why or how this is legal.

 

[aaa1]

The questions you are asking will never find any answers unless Axis is dragged to a court case by one of these affected customers and Axis fights it out instead of settling. Then again, who will even bother with a court case? The ones who exploited the loophole know they don't have a case. Ones who didn't exploit haven't suffered financial losses high enough to justify the legal expenses, time and mental agony of a court case.

Talking of ones who didn't exploit, let us take an example. Someone bought a Rs 2L 75" TV and realized their local store had a better deal. Their online order had not yet been shipped. So they cancelled the order and landed up with say 8000 Airmiles (I am taking Atlas' example). They then used these 8000 Airmiles to book a flight to Singapore. Axis is basically asking for a monetary value (or twice that) of those 8000 Airmiles back. Yes, had they known that Axis will ask money for those 8000 Airmiles months later they would not have used them and used another card or website for a better or worse deal. But they did use them. It turned out to be sort of borrowed money. Is that amount worth a court case? Definitely not unless you are retired or jobless or extremely determined.

To your other point, I do fully agree that Axis just went a step too far asking for what seems to be twice the monetary value of those points / Airmiles when they don't even allow them to redeemed for cash and the MITC didn't talk about it. Axis should have taken a middle ground / compromise for the ones who didn't exploit (say those who had 1 or 2 cancellations or the points were below a certain threshold). They should have taken a haircut (i.e. a financial write-off aka loss) or asked for half of what they are asking for. A compromise where neither party feels like they won!

I think they are doing it for write off. They're just showing they're trying to recover and then would be like Ohh no we tried, anyway it's a write off. Maybe just hit their CIBIL and leave it. Let the customers sue them and then fight them. Saves them money and shows they really tried recovery.

Also twice the monetary value is maybe due to this accounting write off. Most probably wouldn't stand in court but what's they need in accounting. Again attempt to recover.