UPI killing usage of cards

[iamdhamo]

Cos of UPI merchants are asking to use to pay via UPI instead of cc and this makes a cause where in the same shop I had used cc now I m using UPI. Also the merchant has stopped to accept upi via rupay cc. Incase if I ask cc payment then he asks the mdr to be paid by me

Hence my cc is also dormant n my rupay cc is also dormant.

Have you people started to face this scenario?

 

[doraemon]

I am using rupay cc for UPI payments. We Indians always misunderstood the things. They are no MDR upto 2k payment. Most of the payments comes within this range (vegitable shops, small road side restaurants, fuel stations etc.) If they don't accept rupay cc for UPI, they loose their business. What I do is that time I will pay through bank account and next time I will not visit that shop. With the fear of non- existent MDR they are loosing thier business. Because, most of the small shops are having payment value less than 20k.

Yeah your point is right

Now see the below example

I have a shop where 1-2 lakhs of transaction are done on daily basis
10% of then are online
We are a cash business people
And most of the payments online are more than 5k

So why merchant will pay mdr and blah blah?
Also wallet acceptance or gv acceptance has 1% charges atleast in phonepe

So why merchant will pay those charges?
Jab wo pehle se 125 mahina dera in companies ko??

Below 2k it's a great thing
But above that
For small merchants and shop keepers
It's nightmare

 

[HumorSimpson]

Yeah your point is right

Now see the below example

I have a shop where 1-2 lakhs of transaction are done on daily basis
10% of then are online
We are a cash business people
And most of the payments online are more than 5k

So why merchant will pay mdr and blah blah?
Also wallet acceptance or gv acceptance has 1% charges atleast in phonepe

So why merchant will pay those charges?
Jab wo pehle se 125 mahina dera in companies ko??

Below 2k it's a great thing
But above that
For small merchants and shop keepers
It's nightmare

Doreman is that Gian's veggie shop?

 

[Abhishek012]

If you read correctly I said rupay wont bother for chargeback from fruit seller which again defeats the purpose of using cc = buyer protection. Advertisement ≠ Reality as even raising chargeback from major networks is challenging in India due to the country specific malpractice of issuing banks requiring confirmation of refund 1st from seller; which again stems from non enforcement & zero awareness of consumer rights & ignorance + innocence of indian buyers/consumers.

I can be illiterate & uneducated as fack but what I have said are facts which remain true regardless.



Abhishek012, I understand that you’re passionate about this topic, and I appreciate your perspective. Let’s break down some of the points you’ve raised:

1. RuPay and Chargebacks:
   
   • Rightly pointed out that RuPay cards may not be as robust in terms of chargeback protection as some other major networks. Chargebacks can indeed be challenging in India due to specific practices by issuing banks.
   • The lack of awareness about consumer rights and the innocence of Indian buyers can contribute to this issue.
2. Fruit Seller Chargebacks:
   
   • You mentioned that it’s unlikely for someone to raise a chargeback against a fruit seller. This is true; chargebacks are more commonly associated with larger transactions or online purchases.
   • However, the absence of chargebacks from smaller vendors doesn’t negate the overall value of credit cards for buyer protection.
3. UPI and RuPay:
   
   • UPI and RuPay are essential payment systems in India, but they operate differently from credit cards.
   • While chargebacks are less common with UPI, it’s essential to recognize that these systems serve different purposes. UPI is primarily for instant fund transfers, whereas credit cards offer additional protections.
4. Consumer Rights and Awareness:
   
   • Highlighted the lack of consumer rights enforcement and awareness in India. This is indeed an issue that needs attention.
   • In the USA, credit cards provide stronger buyer protection through chargebacks, especially for cases like receiving defective merchandise.
5. UPI as Cash Equivalent:
   
   • UPI transactions are akin to cash payments. Unlike credit cards, UPI doesn’t offer the same chargeback mechanism.
   • Fraud prevention and awareness are crucial, and the government’s efforts to educate people about safe transactions are commendable.

Remember that each payment system has its strengths and limitations. While credit cards excel in buyer protection, UPI and RuPay serve different purposes. It’s essential for consumers to understand their options and make informed choices based on their needs and circumstances. 🌟

Arey bhai, first decide your topic is RuPay/UPI vs other Indian credit card networks chargeback system or Indian Credit card vs USA Credit Card chargeback system ?

If your topic is Indian Credit card vs USA Credit card chargeback system then what's the point for sharing this info here ?

In India, you can apply for chargeback on all payment networks UPI, RuPay, Visa, India, Mastercard India etc.

Buyer protection in India is mostly offered by banks. This has nothing to do with the payment network.

Normal bank account link UPI also offer chargeback and RuPay CC on UPI offer Credit Card level chargeback system, comes with all features you get on credit cards like buyer protection, Lost card liability cover, unauthorized transactions protection etc.

In India, all these are handled by banks, hence all these offers are mostly given by banks.

Many people here have this doubt UPI offer chargeback or not. So, ya UPI offer chargeback. That's it.

RuPay already release a circular where clearly mentioned all RuPay CC chargeback system available on RuPay CC on UPI transaction.

Oh by the way you mentioned about (Reason Code 13.3: Consumer Disputes) which is offered by Visa Card.

Reason code - 13.3 - Not as Described or Defective Merchandise / Services (Visa Card)

RuPay and UPI offer same level of protection under

Reason code - 1062 - Goods and services not as described or card holder received defective goods or services

Card holders may submit a chargeback to indicate that the goods or services purchased with a RuPay card/UPI were not as described, or the cardholder received defective goods or services.

RuPay Card Chargeback System and Reason Codes Explained -

RuPay Card Chargeback System and Reason Codes Explained

RuPay Card Chargeback System and Reason Codes Explained: A chargeback is a process whereby a customer can dispute a credit or debit card transaction and have the charge reversed. The cardholder contacts their card issuer and requests a chargeback, and the issuer debits the merchant’s account...

www.technofino.in

@doraemon
@COSMOCRAT
@techt
@Swastik
@Pothi

 

[hema220]

Yeah your point is right

Now see the below example

I have a shop where 1-2 lakhs of transaction are done on daily basis
10% of then are online
We are a cash business people
And most of the payments online are more than 5k

So why merchant will pay mdr and blah blah?
Also wallet acceptance or gv acceptance has 1% charges atleast in phonepe

So why merchant will pay those charges?
Jab wo pehle se 125 mahina dera in companies ko??

Below 2k it's a great thing
But above that
For small merchants and shop keepers
It's nightmare

if any shop has1 -2 lakhs transactions per day then it will not come under small merchant category. In future, no merchant can avoid credit card payment, they do it then they are going to loose their business to other merchants.

 

[its_karan]

Yeah your point is right

Now see the below example

I have a shop where 1-2 lakhs of transaction are done on daily basis
10% of then are online
We are a cash business people
And most of the payments online are more than 5k

So why merchant will pay mdr and blah blah?
Also wallet acceptance or gv acceptance has 1% charges atleast in phonepe

So why merchant will pay those charges?
Jab wo pehle se 125 mahina dera in companies ko??

Below 2k it's a great thing
But above that
For small merchants and shop keepers
It's nightmare

 

[its_karan]

I recently got my Ntorq serviced at TVS ,untill last time (3 months ago) i used to pay with my card ,now not only they've removed card machines but also when i tried to make UPI payment on Paytm by my Tata Neu Plus, it says "merchant has disabled credit card payments"

Its 1st time this happened to me but it is alarming if more merchants start following suit

Razorpay enabled merchants

Reliance smart Bazaar

Major retailers such as 15 number of Chandni Chowk

All have disabled CC on UPI

No matter the transaction value

You want to check?

Go to a Smart Bazaar COCO model store(Company Owned Company operated)

and buy say a dahi 1kg for 72

CC on UPI

Now if I say,

Even Reliance Retail dont want to bear MDR

Why Small retailer should?

It should be equitable for all retailers.

Nahi?

But who am I to say anything.

 

[Aniket]

Razorpay enabled merchants

Reliance smart Bazaar

Major retailers such as 15 number of Chandni Chowk

All have disabled CC on UPI

No matter the transaction value

You want to check?

Go to a Smart Bazaar COCO model store(Company Owned Company operated)

and buy say a dahi 1kg for 72

CC on UPI

Now if I say,

Even Reliance Retail dont want to bear MDR

Why Small retailer should?

It should be equitable for all retailers.

Nahi?

But who am I to say anything.

Not only this, even gov cos. or bodies have disabled. 😂

 

[Swastik]

Razorpay enabled merchants

Reliance smart Bazaar

Major retailers such as 15 number of Chandni Chowk

All have disabled CC on UPI

No matter the transaction value

You want to check?

Go to a Smart Bazaar COCO model store(Company Owned Company operated)

and buy say a dahi 1kg for 72

CC on UPI

Now if I say,

Even Reliance Retail dont want to bear MDR

Why Small retailer should?

It should be equitable for all retailers.

Nahi?

But who am I to say anything.

Well then ,God have mercy on all Rupay holders

 

[Aniket]

Well then ,God have mercy on all Rupay holders

I don't know the logic to provide the option to disable payments upto 2k, even if it's free

 

[shivkumar]

Razorpay enabled merchants

Reliance smart Bazaar

Major retailers such as 15 number of Chandni Chowk

All have disabled CC on UPI

No matter the transaction value

You want to check?

Go to a Smart Bazaar COCO model store(Company Owned Company operated)

and buy say a dahi 1kg for 72

CC on UPI

Now if I say,

Even Reliance Retail dont want to bear MDR

Why Small retailer should?

It should be equitable for all retailers.

Nahi?

But who am I to say anything.

These are big retailers aren’t they accepting visa/master/amex cc & paying mdr on same..

If yes, why are they disabling upi rupay cc. Is the rate of mdr higher on rupay upi cc..

 

[coolguy1]

These are big retailers aren’t they accepting visa/master/amex cc & paying mdr on same..

If yes, why are they disabling upi rupay cc. Is the rate of mdr higher on rupay upi cc..

Well, they think UPI is free and like to keep it that way.

I suggest using the cards directly, that works our better for us(users) and for them(stores) too!

 

[paxauquabriba-4876]

Kaha se yeh sab bakwas info late ho, RuPay is not going to allow chargeback ?

If you read correctly I said rupay wont bother for chargeback from fruit seller which again defeats the purpose of using cc = buyer protection. Advertisement ≠ Reality as even raising chargeback from major networks is challenging in India due to the country specific malpractice of issuing banks requiring confirmation of refund 1st from seller; which again stems from non enforcement & zero awareness of consumer rights & ignorance + innocence of indian buyers/consumers.

Khud se ghar me banate ho ya kahi class join kiye ho uneducated hone ka ?

I can be illiterate & uneducated as fack but what I have said are facts which remain true regardless.

Paheli baat toh fruit seller se kon chargeback karta hai, dusri baat chargeback sab me hote hai. UPI and RuPay etc sab me.

Again this very slave mentality is wrong with buyers in india who have given up hope & got used to the non existence of consumer rights due to being repeatedly hamped in the arsh by sellers/merchants on daily basis who even have the audacity to ask to cover merchannt's mdr%=illegal. UPI & rupay CC+UPI will again promote that indian buyers get hamped in the arsh by seller/merchant mentality. So yes if a fruit was bad quality then CC assures buyer protection (Reason Code 13.3: Consumer Disputes) via chargeback (Not As Described Or Defective Merchandise/Services) maybe not in India but in USA.

UPI =Cash . So chargeback for UPI = the biggest dump of vul cit. If chargeback via UPI was possible then why so many frauds & govt advertising not to send money as even govt knows that once money gone then even govt cannot save ur arsh

Arey bhai, first decide your topic is RuPay/UPI vs other Indian credit card networks chargeback system or Indian Credit card vs USA Credit Card chargeback system ?

If your topic is Indian Credit card vs USA Credit card chargeback system then what's the point for sharing this info here ?

In India, you can apply for chargeback on all payment networks UPI, RuPay, Visa, India, Mastercard India etc.

Buyer protection in India is mostly offered by banks. This has nothing to do with the payment network.

Normal bank account link UPI also offer chargeback and RuPay CC on UPI offer Credit Card level chargeback system, comes with all features you get on credit cards like buyer protection, Lost card liability cover, unauthorized transactions protection etc.

In India, all these are handled by banks, hence all these offers are mostly given by banks.

Many people here have this doubt UPI offer chargeback or not. So, ya UPI offer chargeback. That's it.

RuPay already release a circular where clearly mentioned all RuPay CC chargeback system available on RuPay CC on UPI transaction.

Oh by the way you mentioned about (Reason Code 13.3: Consumer Disputes) which is offered by Visa Card.

Reason code - 13.3 - Not as Described or Defective Merchandise / Services (Visa Card)

RuPay and UPI offer same level of protection under

Reason code - 1062 - Goods and services not as described or card holder received defective goods or services

Card holders may submit a chargeback to indicate that the goods or services purchased with a RuPay card/UPI were not as described, or the cardholder received defective goods or services.

RuPay Card Chargeback System and Reason Codes Explained -

RuPay Card Chargeback System and Reason Codes Explained

RuPay Card Chargeback System and Reason Codes Explained: A chargeback is a process whereby a customer can dispute a credit or debit card transaction and have the charge reversed. The cardholder contacts their card issuer and requests a chargeback, and the issuer debits the merchant’s account...

www.technofino.in

@doraemon
@COSMOCRAT
@techt
@Swastik
@Pothi

Thank you for your detailed response, Abhishek012! Let’s address the points you’ve raised:

1. RuPay/UPI vs. Other Indian Credit Card Networks Chargeback System:
   • You’re right; my initial response touched upon both RuPay/UPI and the broader Indian credit card networks. I appreciate your clarification.
   • The focus was on comparing chargeback systems, but I understand that specific nuances matter.
   • Again in India, getting refund = nightmare as any card except AMEX = 1000 emails
2. Buyer Protection in India:
   • Agreed, buyer protection primarily stems from the banks in India, regardless of the payment network.
   • Both UPI and RuPay offer chargeback facilities, and it’s essential for users to be aware of this.
   • Yes all in theory but practical= nightmare as in UPI there is no chat & no email reply on BHIM
3. RuPay Circular and Chargeback System:
   • It’s great to know that RuPay has explicitly communicated about its chargeback system on UPI transactions.
   • The clarity provided by such circulars benefits users and promotes confidence in the system.
   • But Implementation = Nada just as 1000 govt schemes & even Govt agecies like Adhar, Pan, even gov bus have disabled rpay cc upi
4. Reason Codes:
   • You highlighted Reason Code 13.3 (associated with Visa cards) and Reason Code 1062 (applicable to RuPay/UPI).
   • These codes serve as essential tools for handling chargebacks effectively.
   • Rupay just copy pasted from visa but its service quality & dispute resolution is just like a slow govt office as now u complain to upi app, then bank & rupay as last resort

Your insights contribute to a better understanding of the intricacies involved. Keep sharing your knowledge! 🙌🏼

 

[iamdhamo]

These are big retailers aren’t they accepting visa/master/amex cc & paying mdr on same..

If yes, why are they disabling upi rupay cc. Is the rate of mdr higher on rupay upi cc..

Yes rupay cc has higher mdr

 

[Shubham Yadav]

View attachment 48899

subha subha maza aa gaya yrr 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

you made my day bro 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

[Shubham Yadav]

Yeah your point is right

Now see the below example

I have a shop where 1-2 lakhs of transaction are done on daily basis
10% of then are online
We are a cash business people
And most of the payments online are more than 5k

So why merchant will pay mdr and blah blah?
Also wallet acceptance or gv acceptance has 1% charges atleast in phonepe

So why merchant will pay those charges?
Jab wo pehle se 125 mahina dera in companies ko??

Below 2k it's a great thing
But above that
For small merchants and shop keepers
It's nightmare

 

[Abhishek012]

If you read correctly I said rupay wont bother for chargeback from fruit seller which again defeats the purpose of using cc = buyer protection. Advertisement ≠ Reality as even raising chargeback from major networks is challenging in India due to the country specific malpractice of issuing banks requiring confirmation of refund 1st from seller; which again stems from non enforcement & zero awareness of consumer rights & ignorance + innocence of indian buyers/consumers.

I can be illiterate & uneducated as fack but what I have said are facts which remain true regardless.



Thank you for your detailed response, Abhishek012! Let’s address the points you’ve raised:

1. RuPay/UPI vs. Other Indian Credit Card Networks Chargeback System:
   • You’re right; my initial response touched upon both RuPay/UPI and the broader Indian credit card networks. I appreciate your clarification.
   • The focus was on comparing chargeback systems, but I understand that specific nuances matter.
   • Again in India, getting refund = nightmare as any card except AMEX = 1000 emails
2. Buyer Protection in India:
   • Agreed, buyer protection primarily stems from the banks in India, regardless of the payment network.
   • Both UPI and RuPay offer chargeback facilities, and it’s essential for users to be aware of this.
   • Yes all in theory but practical= nightmare as in UPI there is no chat & no email reply on BHIM
3. RuPay Circular and Chargeback System:
   • It’s great to know that RuPay has explicitly communicated about its chargeback system on UPI transactions.
   • The clarity provided by such circulars benefits users and promotes confidence in the system.
   • But Implementation = Nada just as 1000 govt schemes & even Govt agecies like Adhar, Pan, even gov bus have disabled rpay cc upi
4. Reason Codes:
   • You highlighted Reason Code 13.3 (associated with Visa cards) and Reason Code 1062 (applicable to RuPay/UPI).
   • These codes serve as essential tools for handling chargebacks effectively.
   • Rupay just copy pasted from visa but its service quality & dispute resolution is just like a slow govt office as now u complain to upi app, then bank & rupay as last resort

Your insights contribute to a better understanding of the intricacies involved. Keep sharing your knowledge! 🙌🏼

"RuPay just copy pasted from visa but its service quality & dispute resolution is just like a slow govt office as now u complain to upi app, then bank & rupay as last resort" 🙄🙄

What do you mean by copy paste, this is the normal procedure.

All payment network chargeback system is slow, Don't expect that in Visa card, you will get a solution within a few days and in RuPay/UPI it will take months.

Just search here on technofino, you will see many proofs

It took more than 90 days for Visa to solve my OneCard Visa credit card chargeback. Then i contacted RBI and got my refund.

RuPay/UPI chargeback timing is 30 days and Visa/mastercard 45 days.

RuPay/UPI solution is faster.

But this is all 'on paper', Reality is different.

There is no perfect answer as to which payment network chargeback solution is faster.

It all depends on how much help the acquiring bank and the merchant provide.

So, ya your this statement is right "in India, getting refund = nightmare as any card"

 

[pavan000]

If taxpayers money is used to make rupay free then it would be a win win for all.

 

[gowthamv]

my guess, the vendors from small shops might not be properly aware of the MDR, and even if aware not know how to disable etc.
What I have observed is many of the small retailers have also started pasting their personal QR instead of merchant QR, few even say do UPI to a certain number or ID instead of QR.

Exactly.
Merchants still don't know about the MDR for UPI CC Payments. Once they start knowing, Rupay CC on UPI will be almost useless.
They will simply turn of the UPI CC payments instead of adjusting the payment limits to 2k.

And as said above, many merchants have removed the PhonePe and Paytm QRs for their business and they have started pasting their own bank account's QR due to instant settlement.

 

[Abhishek012]

Exactly.
Merchants still don't know about the MDR for UPI CC Payments. Once they start knowing, Rupay CC on UPI will be almost useless.
They will simply turn of the UPI CC payments instead of adjusting the payment limits to 2k.

And as said above, many merchants have removed the PhonePe and Paytm QRs for their business and they have started pasting their own bank account's QR due to instant settlement.

Sooner or late bank will freeze their bank accounts if merchants will use their own P2P UPI QR.

 

[ashwinkashwink is verified member.]

Sooner or late bank will freeze their bank accounts if merchants will use their own P2P UPI QR.

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